Enough juice on my PC to edit DSLR HD video?

msp1518

msp1518

Rather than go in blind, I might as well ask you guys what you think about my PC's specs in regards to editing HD. I've never had an issue with MiniDV editing and more recently, 720p and 1080p from a Zi8.

But a DSLR is another can of beans. I have downloaded both Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas trials and am wondering if my system specs are going to handle footage from a DSLR like the 60D/T2i/7D...?

I've read about NeoScene and don't know if I need to spend the $130.

Next year I would like to buy a Mac and Final Cut pro, but until that day comes, I need to get in here and learn editing on my PC because it is all I have got for now. In January I will have a short film to edit (5 minute comedic piece) and then in April, a 15 minute short.

System specs:
shuttlespecs.jpg
 
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Only one way to find out, brotha. I've got a little more processing power than you (only a little), otherwise yours and mine are comparable. If you go with neoscene, please report your results.

I edited in Premiere CS5, native file format. After a few seconds, video gets choppy. It's annoying, but I managed, and I don't think it ruined any edits. Audio never gets choppy, and I can edit the pacing of a scene on audio alone. And each cut is done on a very precise frame-by-frame method, so many of my biggest decisions are made when I'm not even watching the video at regular playback speed.

Like I said, though, the choppiness is annoying, and I wish I didn't have to deal with it. Maybe neoscene would resolve that issue?

Either way, you're gonna want lots of storage space.

Why don't you do some test editing? Do you have access to any DSLR footage? If not, I can send you some to play with, but not for a couple more days (internet down at my house).
 
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This weekend we are doing a lot of DSLR work so I will finally have material to mess around with. I've never edited on Adobe or Vegas, so I am unsure which I should try first. Still researching that. I'll want to play with the image and make it more film like grainy, so whichever can do that best is likely what I'll choose.
 
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downloaded both Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas trials
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My buddy's going through a similar situation right now. Here's what happened:

He chose to go with Vegas 10 (or Platinum), as it had presets for DSLR footage. The Adobe Elements did not.

His computer was brand-new, with 6 or 8 gigs RAM. The video playback inside Vegas was very choppy, after about 5 seconds. Audio sounded fine, but became unsynched to the video, essentially, 'cos of all the choppiness and hang-time.

When the timeline became longer than 10+ minutes, the Vegas software would start crashing while he was editing. He ended up creating a new project for each scene, to keep going.

Additionally, rendering an exported video file would crash the software every time. (You can google plenty of Vegas -20 & -30 crash codes, and various iffy workarounds).

Tech support from Vegas was pretty lame. My buddy even bought a paid support subscription, and found no solutions with the support techs.

He didn't have the extra funds to buy NeoScene (nor should he have to, if Vegas worked as advertised). I don't have it either, but I do have Adobe Media Encoder - I ran all his files through that and converted his video files to huge MPG files, which he replaced the originals with.

He's still using Vegas, but ever since he started using the converted files he hasn't had a single crash, and everything exports fine... so far. Knock on wood.

Aside from being unable to handle the DSLR footage, as it should have, Vegas seems to be decent editing software.
 
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Zensteve said:
My buddy's going through a similar situation right now. Here's what happened:

He chose to go with Vegas 10 (or Platinum), as it had presets for DSLR footage. The Adobe Elements did not.

His computer was brand-new, with 6 or 8 gigs RAM. The video playback inside Vegas was very choppy, after about 5 seconds. Audio sounded fine, but became unsynched to the video, essentially, 'cos of all the choppiness and hang-time.

When the timeline became longer than 10+ minutes, the Vegas software would start crashing while he was editing. He ended up creating a new project for each scene, to keep going.

Additionally, rendering an exported video file would crash the software every time. (You can google plenty of Vegas -20 & -30 crash codes, and various iffy workarounds).

Tech support from Vegas was pretty lame. My buddy even bought a paid support subscription, and found no solutions with the support techs.

He didn't have the extra funds to buy NeoScene (nor should he have to, if Vegas worked as advertised). I don't have it either, but I do have Adobe Media Encoder - I ran all his files through that and converted his video files to huge MPG files, which he replaced the originals with.

He's still using Vegas, but ever since he started using the converted files he hasn't had a single crash, and everything exports fine... so far. Knock on wood.

Aside from being unable to handle the DSLR footage, as it should have, Vegas seems to be decent editing software.
Click to expand...

Sounds like Vegas and Premiere have the same issue with choppiness. Premiere has never crashed on me, though. And CS5 has a DSLR preset. And it's F-ing awesome software.

I guess the next question is -- what are your opinions on corporate profit and capitalism?

Arrggh! Ahoy, matey!
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I guess the next question is -- what are your opinions on corporate profit and capitalism?

Arrggh! Ahoy, matey!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're implying I'm into software piracy. :hmm:

Or maybe I misunderstand.

Regardless, it seems that PC video solutions have a harder time with .mov wrappers than they should, and that intermediary conversions are the way to go. Premiere SD is avi-based, and HDV is mpg based. Not sure what Vegas' optimised codec is, but it sure ain't .mov
 
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Yep, this is pretty much my problem.

The computer that I have isn't powerful enough to run Adobe Premiere on or even LightWorks so the only HD editing software I have is Vegas 7 (yep, 7) but that makes my computer crash after about five minutes.

This has been the biggest thing standing between me and making something with my new(ish) camera. I just can't edit anything that I shoot until I upgrade my computer which, I am told, costs money :(

Your computer looks to be alright, but I can't really get to grips with all those different options. I know that you'll want at least 4 GB of RAM...
 
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NickClapper said:
only HD editing software I have is Vegas 7 (yep, 7) but that makes my computer crash after about five minutes.
Click to expand...

If you're in a bind, try Movie Maker Live. It's free.


new(ish) camera. I just can't edit anything that I shoot
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It's possible your HD camera has an option to down-convert to SD, when importing to your software. I've done that many times, when I've needed smaller filesizes to work with.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Dude, don't do that. Shooting in 1080p is a nice luxury. If you're worried about your software being able to handle the footage, convert it to neoscene. That will require more storage space, but hard drives are cheaper than dirt.
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The troulbe is that it's a bum old computer so I'd need to buy a new hard drive, then download NeoScene (so another $130) and even then I'm still editing on Vegas 7. I'd much rather save this money up to eventually get a decent computer and editing software. But thanks for the advice.

I guess I can convert the video down a little in quality (especially if i'm mainly producing for YouTube) and that will make it easier to edit...
 
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NickClapper said:
The troulbe is that it's a bum old computer so I'd need to buy a new hard drive, then download NeoScene (so another $130) and even then I'm still editing on Vegas 7. I'd much rather save this money up to eventually get a decent computer and editing software. But thanks for the advice.

I guess I can convert the video down a little in quality (especially if i'm mainly producing for YouTube) and that will make it easier to edit...
Click to expand...

Oh, well, that makes perfect sense. Save up for the good computer. No need to downconvert to SD. 550D does have the option of shooting in SD. But then you still have the issue of file type. It's not really friendly with older versions of software. I don't have any idea how Vegas 7 will hold up.
 
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I think Vegas works good enough. Just convert the footage before you edit if you have issues. The shorter the length of the project the quicker the render times. That is why I broke each scene into separate projects. Then find a DVD authoring software to create a DVD that combines the scenes (I used Unlead DVD Movie Factory software but there probably is something better to use).

If you are going to use your old PC, I would maximize your RAM to the max for that PC can take and get a external hard drive as CF suggested. I would suggest no less than 4 Gigs of RAM. I highly suggest you just go and buy a new PC they are cheap enough now days (of course if you can afford to). PC's are much cheaper to buy than Mac. The more RAM and better CPU the shorter your render times will be.

I think any choppiness you are getting in video playback is cause by a lack of RAM and CPU power. If you can't get a new computer your next best bet is to upgrade RAM to the maximum your computer will allow.

I was not confident on the best way of converting DSLR footage(with the highest quality) to be useable for Sony Vegas so I did a little research. I read in the thread on CreativeCow forum that you can update to the latest codec for quicktime and that will help with editing DSLR footage with no conversion needed. Another poster said that he preferred using Neoscene conversion over ProRES format which was another alternative. http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/280/772
 
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Wow, my thread went wild! :) There is a lot of food for thought here.

WinXP has a limitation of 4GB RAM so I can't upgrade beyond what I have now. Nor can I buy a faster cpu, as I do believe my motherboard is at its max. A new system isn't in the cards. Next year I'll buy new and will either get a top of the line Macbook pro or an iMac. BootCamp able, of course.

Then again, maybe I'll fall in love with Vegas or Premier and say "screw that."

How does Adobe Premiere compare to Final Cut Pro as far as options and bells and whistles? It's looking to be 60/40 for Adobe over Vegas at this point, maybe even 70/30. This weekend will be the start of my test shooting so I'll have to start editing and try them out. Likely I should just install one and run with it and see what happens. I'm leaning towards Adobe Premiere.
 
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I am not super familar with Premiere but it is pretty similar from what I can tell to Vegas. I would try to test both on your system to see which works best for the computer you have. I think Premiere is more of a memory hog and Vegas will be a better choice for that reason. Vegas is easier to learn too in my opinion. You should be able to try trial versions if you don't all ready own them.

I liked the simplicity of how Sony Vegas edits because it is similar to a DAW(digital work station like Sonar,Sony Acid, or Protools). Premiere is very similar to Sony Vegas from what I can tell using the trial. The upside to Vegas is that it is cheap to buy.

Final Cut is expensive but I have heard good things about it. I have heard it is a powerful program and that you can do stuff in it that you can't in some of the others. I don't know if that is true but that is what I heard. People say it is comparable to Avid which is what a lot of professionals use. FCP is way cheaper than Avid. Downside is FCP is not available for PC only for the MAC. Vegas and Premiere are much cheaper than FCP.
 
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msp1518 said:
WinXP has a limitation of 4GB RAM so I can't upgrade beyond what I have now. Nor can I buy a faster cpu, as I do believe my motherboard is at its max.

A new system isn't in the cards. (...) I'm leaning towards Adobe Premiere.
Click to expand...

I trimmed out the rest, but here's the summary.

You need software that is suitable for your current non-upgradable computer. Maybe you'll get a better computer later.

Do not buy Adobe Premiere.

For the $800 that Adobe Premiere CS5 will run you, you could have bought Vegas, NeoScene and a new computer to last you well into next year!

:cool:
 
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Thanks, gang. Adobe is out because the trails have zero HD support. No HD support = useless. Everything I have is HD and if I cannot learn on it, well, I am screwed. No point in going after it.

Zensteve, I have no idea how I can get a new computer AND Vegas AND Neoscene for $800, so do tell. Please.

Vegas alone is $500. NeoScene is $120. That's $620.

Should I consider buying a stripped down Vegas, like Movie Studio Platinum or something like it? That way I can learn on the 5 minute short I am doing and if I like it, step up to Sony Vegas for the next short. I can sell the stripped down version on eBay when I am done with it before buying the big gun.

The big thing about Sony Vegas and the smaller suites they sell is customer service. It's said to be terrible to useless and with all the people reporting crashes with anything involving SLR shot HD, that scares me.
 
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