End goal of an Indie filmmaker - Feedback requested

J

jamiejohnson37

End goal of an Indie filmmaker?

Hi all,

I'm doing a little research on the indie film industry and have a few questions for all you independent filmmakers. Having come from more of a Television & music production background, the indie filmmaker goals & alternative goals are a bit vague to me. Here is what I THINK I understand thus far (please correct me if any of this is incorrect):

* The "short film" (ie: 5 -15min) are typically used as a "demo reel" to pitch to investors in order to fund a full production.

* The ultimate goal of indie filmmakers is to get a distribution deal with one of the big six and premier on 2k -3k screens.

* Alternative distribution is a more realistic "alternative goal" (due to the closed, exclusive nature of Hollywood in general) and may include, smaller indie theater chains, straight to DVD, network or cable television distribution, etc.

Questions for you all:

1. Is television distribution appealing to independent filmmakers? Or is it all about the big screen (even if in a small number of theaters)?

2. Who do you consider the ideal target for you film before you reach your "end goal" (if you could get it in front of the group of your choice):

- Investors?
- Major distribution studios?
- Smaller independent distribution companies?
- DVD only distribution companies?
- Or the end consumer on television?

3. What part has the internet played to you as a filmmaker?


Again, this is just for my own knowledge, not trying to pitch anything, just trying to get an understanding how the indie film industry works.

Best regards,

Jamie
 
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1. I can't speak for others, but TV is fine depending on the film. But the only times I see made for TV movies anymore are on SyFi (or however you spell it nowadays), Lifetime, and Hallmark. Most of my scripts don't apply to those stations. It should be noted that I rarely watch TV and I only get basic channels. But a small number of theaters would be much better than TV just because it's better for me as a film maker to ensure that the audience's full, undivided attention will be on the screen. Doesn't work the same way with TV.

2. Investors to fund the film. Then major distribution companies, and if not them indie distributors. And if neither of the two DVD distributors. And if all else fails video streaming through the various independent film sites. If I can't achieve any of those then there is no way I can reach the audience.

3. It's a great tool but also a double edged sword. Sure we have access and the ability to make and distribute films more so than people did 20 years ago, but so does everyone else. So for every one good flick out there, there could be dozens of horrible ones (and the horrible ones tend to get more recognition for some reason). It boils down to how you use it. There's many great ways to advertise and network around so that your film can get out there. Myspace may be going down the tubes as of late, but facebook is still going strong and will probably continue for another five years or so, and twitter could last even longer.
 
The end goal, for me at least, is to have a career, not just a single feature film finished or done with these goals. The mythos speak of the 3 picture development deal with one of the studios, not distribution with them on the indie feature itself per se.

The short film is sometimes just a short film. Like a short story, it isn't always a good idea to turn it into a novel. In most cases the short film is nothing but a training ground for learning the art of telling a story with the camera and actors and learning communication with crew, etc. It's a means to an end. For those who can't afford film school, it's a way to self teach.

Television distribution is always a good thing. It's the longevity of a project that appeals. Theatrical is hardly possible for most indies today. At best expect a one off show or some film festivals, but expecting to get on 2,000-3,000 screens with no name stars is incredibly unlikely (although possible - see PARANORMAL ACTIVITY). Home video used to be a lucrative option, but that is dwindling greatly. Television, cable TV is a way to make money if someone is interested in the movie. PAY-PER-VIDEO and VIDEO ON DEMAND are where indies are making some headway, because of low overhead, low costs but they are also low earners.

The ideal audience is dependent on the project. Horror films want horrors fans, teen movies want teens, and everyone is looking for some broad appeal. You want people who pay for product, so 18-35 year old males, the same demographic that everyone targets. Success lately has been in niche marketing to gamers, science fiction, and particular enthusiasts, especially in sports.

The Internet is supposedly the great equalizer. I haven't seen that. I see it as a way of muddying the waters more and making it harder for good material to surface, but when it does, there are a million ways to spread the word. See PANIC ATTACK and THE RAVEN as examples of successful viral marketing, almost by accident. Neither intended to use the Internet to scale the walls of Hollywood, but they did exactly that. People like something good. When they see it, they tell other people about it.
 
This is all excellent feedback. Thank you for the informative responses. If anyone else would like to jump in, I'm all ears.

Best regards,

Jamie
 
sonnyboo said:
The end goal, for me at least, is to have a career, not just a single feature film finished or done with these goals. The mythos speak of the 3 picture development deal with one of the studios, not distribution with them on the indie feature itself per se.

The short film is sometimes just a short film. Like a short story, it isn't always a good idea to turn it into a novel. In most cases the short film is nothing but a training ground for learning the art of telling a story with the camera and actors and learning communication with crew, etc. It's a means to an end. For those who can't afford film school, it's a way to self teach.

Television distribution is always a good thing. It's the longevity of a project that appeals. Theatrical is hardly possible for most indies today. At best expect a one off show or some film festivals, but expecting to get on 2,000-3,000 screens with no name stars is incredibly unlikely (although possible - see PARANORMAL ACTIVITY). Home video used to be a lucrative option, but that is dwindling greatly. Television, cable TV is a way to make money if someone is interested in the movie. PAY-PER-VIDEO and VIDEO ON DEMAND are where indies are making some headway, because of low overhead, low costs but they are also low earners.

The ideal audience is dependent on the project. Horror films want horrors fans, teen movies want teens, and everyone is looking for some broad appeal. You want people who pay for product, so 18-35 year old males, the same demographic that everyone targets. Success lately has been in niche marketing to gamers, science fiction, and particular enthusiasts, especially in sports.

The Internet is supposedly the great equalizer. I haven't seen that. I see it as a way of muddying the waters more and making it harder for good material to surface, but when it does, there are a million ways to spread the word. See PANIC ATTACK and THE RAVEN as examples of successful viral marketing, almost by accident. Neither intended to use the Internet to scale the walls of Hollywood, but they did exactly that. People like something good. When they see it, they tell other people about it.
Click to expand...


I'm sure there are extreme variations, depending on the genre & type of shoot, but what kind of budgets are you guys working with on both a short & full length feature? How much revenue would a filmmaker need to make an acceptable profit? We can pull off a reality shoot anywhere between 27k - 43k per 22min episode. I'm curious what your margins are?

Thanks,

- J
 
I can only speak for myself, but I think the conclusions you've reached so far are pretty accurate.

1. I'll take any audience I can get. Of course, the big screen is the ultimate goal, but I wouldn't turn down a paying job anywhere.

2. Distributors, major or minor. And investors.

3. I'm barely getting my feet wet, so for now, I've only been using the internet to show videos on Youtube. When I complete my first feature, I plan to use the internet for marketing. Haven't figured out how to make that work yet, as that bridge is a ways off.
 
My ultimate goal would be to win an academy award. I would love the heavy hitters of the industry to say that they loved my work that much.
 
"The end goal, for me at least, is to have a career"

Yep, to make at least a comfortable living as a filmmaker. Perfect world would be making the films I want to make the way I want to make them, acceptable world is making complete garbage, but getting paid well for it.
 
jamiejohnson37 said:
Hi all,

I'm doing a little research on the indie film industry and have a few questions for all you independent filmmakers. Having come from more of a Television & music production background, the indie filmmaker goals & alternative goals are a bit vague to me. Here is what I THINK I understand thus far (please correct me if any of this is incorrect):

* The "short film" (ie: 5 -15min) are typically used as a "demo reel" to pitch to investors in order to fund a full production.

* The ultimate goal of indie filmmakers is to get a distribution deal with one of the big six and premier on 2k -3k screens.

* Alternative distribution is a more realistic "alternative goal" (due to the closed, exclusive nature of Hollywood in general) and may include, smaller indie theater chains, straight to DVD, network or cable television distribution, etc.

Questions for you all:

1. Is television distribution appealing to independent filmmakers? Or is it all about the big screen (even if in a small number of theaters)?

2. Who do you consider the ideal target for you film before you reach your "end goal" (if you could get it in front of the group of your choice):

- Investors?
- Major distribution studios?
- Smaller independent distribution companies?
- DVD only distribution companies?
- Or the end consumer on television?

3. What part has the internet played to you as a filmmaker?


Again, this is just for my own knowledge, not trying to pitch anything, just trying to get an understanding how the indie film industry works.

Best regards,

Jamie
Click to expand...

Whee! Questionnaire! :)

1. I'd be just as happy right now getting TV to show my film short as I would for a full series (A full TV series sans dialogue-there's a concept:lol:). Right now I would like exposure(and some money wouldn't hurt). Of course, film would be nice too :).

2. Any of these would be nice, I'm not picky in this current regard (though the DVD I'm seeing about trying to get a collection of shorts together for a release- I don't think people would buy a 10 min DVD, unless it's from the NFB ;))

3. Huge. I just got the gumption to start putting my film on youtube and other sites. I don't know where I would have gone in a pre-internet age.
 
I cannot answer your questions, because I am not a film maker. The most I've done with film is two half hour interviews I did with a blues musician and a jazz musician. Then an interview with a politician, just on the spot kind of thing. Other then that just some amateur blogging journalism at a few protests.

At this point I am a writer, and I've got time to progress into film, I think anyways... I'm only 17. :lol:

I'd just like to point out how journeymanpictures does it from Youtube. He's a documentary filmmaker and has a website wwww.journeyman.tv he puts up ten minute, give or take previews to documentaries that are posted on his website.

You need to pay to join his website and watch the full content, it is rather affective. I haven't payed anything because I don't pay for anything online, but I sure want to ha ha. For a filmmaker who has considerably less content to put out on a frequent basis this method can still be utilized.

If let's say you had an explosion of fan base, not enough to launch you to Hollywood but enough to be known on the internet. Launch a website (if you know how to speak techie that is, cause I'm clueless. I've been trying to figure out to work an audio podcast and post that on a blogging service for months now!) that has content, news, etc. and give previews of projects your working on.

Or if you have enough of a following put up daily or weekly vlogs of how your project is going, video journals type of thing. There are plenty of ways to create a brand and build hype with youtube as long as you have your own website to create an income.
 
1. For me its all about the content, after the fact if it makes it to TV or the big screen is a bit irrelevant.

2. Wait, I want people to see my movie? Hun, when did that happen? Honestly, in front of people, no matter who they are is the goal, the more the merrier (well for me anyway, they might not feel that way after seeing the movie).

3. It's allowed me to research and absorb a lot of information, advice, and techniques which I would of otherwise had to learn myself (reinvent the wheel) and it allows me to post some videos for feedback. Eventually it will allow me to get some returns from my movies so I can keep making more of them.

PS. Answer #2 is full of sarcasm. :P
 
1. Self distribution appeals to me because that's all I'm capable of at the moment.

2. Ideal target? The audience.

3. The internet has allowed me to run over to every website I can find and make my big announcement. "Hey, I made a movie." Then there's YouTube with my newly available rent option for consumers...and of course the Facebook thing and whatever else I can think of.

All I want to do is make movies for people. I'm not trying to compete with other filmmakers or snatch up a bunch of awards, it's the people that matter. Someone comes home after a hard days work or has the weekend off and want to just sit down and watch a damn movie.

Hopefully someday I'll be the guy who can provide that on a constant basis. Awards are fine and dandy, but just because someone has a piece of paper saying they can build a house doesn't mean they know how to use a hammer.
 
It depends on the script. Being strictly a writer, on the opposite coast from L.A., I try to keep it realistic. My goals?

1. Write the best damn script that I can. Simple as that. And then write another, etc...(an ongoing process)

2. Identify the target audience for each film, and then seek out indie film makers who are into the same genre and are looking for scripts...(I hooked up with an Indie producer in DC, so we're kewl on this goal)

3. The DC Company is now in the process of editing two films of mine, and we're looking at 2 totally different marketing strategies:

Film (A) The Shoebox, is a tear jerker based on a true story. It has no nudity, obscenities or violence, so the target audience has always been Cable & DVD sales....But it has a built in word of mouth network available, so the internet will come heavily into play. We also have a commitment from the Enzian Theater in Orlando to have our Friends & Family Premiere there. Along with that, the top ranked(for 3 years running) CW Network Station Affiliate has committed to show it during their regional programming hours, so long as "it doesn't totally suck"...:)......The Shoebox has been a passion project, and we feel that it will find its niche...Total budget? around $50,000.

Film (B) Dinner At 8...A character driven adult comedy that has been described as "David Mamet meets Woody Allen"...We actually have high hopes for this one, and are developing a game plan while the editing continues....Major distribution would be lovely, but c'mon, it's got no name actors, so no one's gonna come knocking on our door. That leaves the legwork up to us...The Festival Circuit is always a possibility, but we'll probably skip it. Too much work for too little results...At this time, we're leaning toward college campuses. Lot's of $1 showings, and then let the word spread a little. If the reaction is good, then we'll "4 wall" it in the town and hope for the best....And from there it gets complicated, and I fear I've already rambled on too much and will stop before inducing comas....Total budget? $5,000.

4. A short(8 minute) film titled "HOPE is the thing with feathers". Filmed by a small local meet-up group. We'll probably enter it in a few contests, and use it, individually, as a business card....But because it's based on an Emily Dickinson poem, the internet comes back into play. Emily is on Facebook and Myspace, so we can post links on her pages and will at least get some attention...Oh, and North Carolina, where I now live, has a $10,000 Grant they give out every 2 years. This is one of those years. So I'll submit the short to them and hope to win the grant to develop this into a full length script.

5. Back to being just a writer....While it would be nice to catch fire with any of these and buy that beach house, reality says that these are gonna end up being "samples", which will hopefully, possibly, maybe, yeah right dream on, lead to a writing assignment or two.

6. Write the best damn script that I can.....Oh, and don't quit the day job.

Hope this helps:)

Midnite
 
I'm making a feature length documentary which I hope to give away free on the internet.

1. Is television distribution appealing to independent filmmakers? Or is it all about the big screen (even if in a small number of theaters)?

Not worried about TV. A small cinema release might be nice but for me, it's ALL about the fact that the internet potentially allows me to reach millions of people with a free product. SUre, it might not be that easy in reality but the possibility is there.

2. Who do you consider the ideal target for you film before you reach your "end goal" (if you could get it in front of the group of your choice):

- Investors?-

Good but not essential. A few rich friends or some crowd funding might be nice.

- Major distribution studios?

Could care less, Youtube is everything. If my vid doesn't
go viral it's my own fault and no one elses.

- Smaller independent distribution companies?

I'm much more interested in smaller independent media outlets. A network of them is essential.

- DVD only distribution companies?

Not too worried but the revenue might be nice. I doubt it'll be more than pocket money though.

- Or the end consumer on television?

This is everything to me. Amazing times.

3. What part has the internet played to you as a filmmaker?

Everything. The net plus digi has brought the cost of my production down from 200,000 to 2,000 Euros. I wouldn't have even picked up a camera 20 years ago, but now's the time.
 
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jamiejohnson37 said:
...what kind of budgets are you guys working with on both a short & full length feature? How much revenue would a filmmaker need to make an acceptable profit? We can pull off a reality shoot anywhere between 27k - 43k per 22min episode. I'm curious what your margins are?
Click to expand...

YAFI hasn't spent more than $500ish on an individual short. My goal is to operate a film coop that can get people experience on set without having to pay for film school (although, I do support film schools and am currently a student). If anything we do catches, I'd like to be able to bring the folks I work with along for the ride as I would be nothing without the team.

I'd love to make a living making films/ TV/ Any sort of filmed/video'd creative product. I'm using the internet to distribute currently due to its cost (free to me), although we're looking at other outlets in film festivals and possible dvd/online rental/ tv types of outlets.

At this point, Genre films look like the simplest viable option for making a profit with a film as they have a built in audience that tends to be willing to overlook production quality for content.

I'd love for the old studio system to make a comeback where I could become contracted labor with a steady income to support my family.

My question to you... what is the purpose of this line of questioning? Where is this data being used and to what specific end?
 
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