Easiest to use (budget) field audio recorder

S

ShotGal

For a low end unit ~$100+ range - which one of the dozens of audio recorders (with external mic input) are the easiest to use?

We had a Zoom H4 very briefly and got rid of it due to it's twisted menu system and tiny screen. (We needed to use magnifying eyeglasses to be able to use this thing, and navigation was horrific.)

All we want to be able to do is capture stereo/mono audio with one big, simple button - without diving through menus. Prefer low noise and hiss (lowest noise floor possible in a budget recorder). Extra tracks, effects, editing, bouncing or any other bells and whistles are useless for our application. We just want to push the button and know it's recording without going through menus. Stop, auto save, and record another. Record, Save. Nothing else.

80% of the time we intend to use external microphones, so the quality (or even existence) of onboard mics is not significant though if they are brilliant then all the better...

I've seen some good comparison sites with audio samples -
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples

And noise tests -
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

But no one talks about usability.
 
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Is the Zoom menu really all that hard? We've handed it to audio guys who have never touched one before and they did fine on day one. Especially once your settings are set (mono or stereo, 16 bit 48000hz or whatever you're wanting to shoot) then all that's left is the button for input level and the record and stop buttons.

I've used the Tascam DR-100 several times too, it's the same idea just different. I don't think any budget or hand held model will give you a larger screen.

There are some iPhone interfaces that are cheap and I'm sure really simple, but since you're looking for low noise floor then it's probably not the answer for you either.
 
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from what I know of the Zooms (The 2 track one) once you set up its just record (twice) and stop. No menu involved or saving. All small recorders have similarly convoluted menus due to the low button count though I think the tascams have bigger screens, look up their DR range.
Personally I would prefer the Marantz range of recorders as they are easier to use in the field due to their meter positions and sling mounts but they are significantly more.
 
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Thanks, yes I know I'm probably just going to have to deal with convoluted menus on these things. :-(

From what I've seen (and heard samples from), the Tascams seem to be a bit noisy in comparison to the competition, though they are priced well. Currently I'm looking at Olympus LS-10S as a possibility, though they don't seem to be nearly as popular in general as a brand, which makes me hesitate.

The Sony PCM-M10 might be the best choice in this category, but is quite a jump in cost.
Of the Zooms the H4N is their popular top line model, but even more than the (better audio quality) Sony.
 
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ShotGal said:
For a low end unit ~$100+ range - which one of the dozens of audio recorders (with external mic input) are the easiest to use?
Click to expand...

What you want doesn't exist. Quality and convenience come at a cost. They are ALL going to be noisy in the sub-$600 range (noisy being relative). Even a Tascam DR-05 is going to be less noisy than the venerable Nagra, as you no longer have to deal with tape hiss. But you still need to learn proper gain-staging and proper boom technique.

If you are serious about wanting clean audio you first must get into low-Z (low impedance) equipment. You will notice a significant improvement in S/N (signal to noise) ratio at the technical level. However, as I mentioned, proper techniques will still be the over-riding factor. The H4n, DR-40 and DR-100 are a bit better than hi-Z (high impedance) units. Even with prosumer recorders like the PMD-661, FR-2LE, R-26 and HD-P2 ($600 - $700) you will notice a huge improvement in S/N ratio if you use a quality mixer like a Sound Devices unit; it's all about the mic preamps (provided you have done proper gain-staging).

You want to spend $100. A professional production sound mixer will spend $10,000 on the mic(s), mixer and recorder. And even then the production sound will be highly processed by the audio post team in their million dollar facility.

The Olympus LS series are nice for the price, however, they are not "less" complicated or less noisy than anything else in that price range.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
What you want doesn't exist. >snip< A professional production sound mixer will spend $10,000 on the mic(s), mixer and recorder.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your efforts in responding and attempting to answer the question, but it doesn't take a lot to figure out that this is a hobby for me - and I'm not doing multi-million dollar films. If I had a big budget I would just hire a dedicated sound crew and let them bring all their own gear. If I had a modest budget and was doing this 100% full time I would draw on my 30+ years experience in the music & pro audio industry and record with the purest signal path possible and best gear I could afford in that range - so my budget might have been 10-30x what is currently is.

Regardless of price range, *comparatively* there will always be hardware in any given class which performs better or worse than it's competitors - (see Microphone Input Noise Comparison link above) seeking out user experience and information via forum discussion should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Just because it's a hobby however, doesn't mean I don't try to get the best possible results with what I have.
Golf is a hobby for me too, and I'm a 3 handicap - completely self taught.
I'm serious enough to work hard at improving and learning how to optimize my resources and results - regardless of budget.
 
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ShotGal said:
For a low end unit ~$100+ range - which one of the dozens of audio recorders (with external mic input) are the easiest to use?

All we want to be able to do is capture stereo/mono audio with one big, simple button - without diving through menus. Prefer low noise and hiss (lowest noise floor possible in a budget recorder)... We just want to push the button and know it's recording without going through menus. Stop, auto save, and record another. Record, Save. Nothing else.

80% of the time we intend to use external microphones, so the quality (or even existence) of onboard mics is not significant though if they are brilliant then all the better...
Click to expand...

So as I understand it, you want a big 'red' button to push which will record sound with low noise and hiss while attached to an external mic. And you want it in the $100 dollar range.

I have never encountered something that exists in this range which for me could be 'low noise and hiss' etc...

However, assuming you are a hobbyist and probably have higher tolerances for hiss than me, I bought my 70 year old father a DR40. It can connect to an external microphone and there is a big red button marked 'record' on the front. As an idea, a 70 year old man who has forgotten his reading glasses can find the 'record' button and he figured out how to use it right off the bat.

Otherwise, even simpler (and if you can't use one of these, you should give up) a used DAT recorder is mind-numbingly easy. I would suggest a Sony DAT recorder. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-TCD-...pt=UK_Recorders_Rewriters&hash=item35c7d715aa

$100, takes tape and has a big red 'record' button on the front.

Personally, my own 'hobbyist' setup is an ECM 674, Promix 3 (fantastic tool, turns a DR100 into a really usable recorder) and a DR100. Naturally I have a boom, zep, deadcat and the usual accoutrements. This would be my bare minimum setup and I hanker after bigger and better pieces of kit. Incidentally, you are wrong about the Tascams if you are referring to the DR100 because the beauty of this piece of kit is that it works better with mixers than, for example, the older Marantz. This makes it significantly better for my mixer-driven setup.
 
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If you really have 30+ years experience in the audio industry you would know that specs have nothing to do with reality. If you look at specs the H4n has the DR-100 beat, but the DR-100 outperforms the H4n in the real world. That "improved" performance is, in reality, only marginal; most will not hear any difference at all. I mean, c'mon, how many product ads offer "Professional results for only pennies!!!" They never live up to the hype.

As I mention so frequently on this and other forums knowledge, skill and technique are the determining factors when working at the low/no/mini/micro budget level. And you need to put more time and effort into production sound at the low/no/mini/micro budget level to overcome the limitations of the equipment.

This is not an inexpensive hobby. Even the raw basics is going to set you back around $500 - audio recorder, mic and accessories. A prosumer kit will cost between $1,200 and $1,500. At least with prosumer gear you have upgrade options and side-step usefulness.
 
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Thanks for the input to all. Based on a combination of things, I went with the Sony PCM-M10. After recently seeing it in use I can say the UI is much better than the Zoom units and others I've had experience with. Out of the ones I've seen it's UI is probably the most intuitive. Hearing it (compared to several others) was also convincing. The down side might be no XLR inputs or phantom power, however it does have true line level in so there is room to grow on the front end as budget allows. Battery life is exceptional and build quality is also very good.

Looking forward to playing with it, and will chime back in later with a report back, once it's in place.
 
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With the Sony PCM-M10 now in hand I can verify, for me, it is a far better unit than the Zooms. The UI is so good I've never even needed to touch the manual, and the buttons are simple, clear and fast to operate. Audio quality seems noise free compared to Zoom or Tascam units. The only real complaint is the internal speaker is completely useless. It's super tiny and almost inaudible. I do wish the display was brighter. The Line In is a huge bonus. It has a 5 second real time "pre-roll" monitor feature, which is great. Mic In seems to really like my battery powered shotgun. It also offers "plug-in power" for consumer level mics. (Not to be confused with phantom power). It's a keeper as fas as I'm concerned - it may not have ticked all the wishlist boxes, but for $200, it's a solid unit.
 
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