dslr

Duck & Dog Productions

Duck & Dog Productions

hey guys,
I know i've asked this before, but i am in desperate need of a new camera and I want to know what my best dslr options are. Here's the situation. I've been chosen to direct a series of short films for a few contests and my school.:D but....... I don't have a working camera. before you say anything else I CANNOT borrow from my school all cameras are out for other projects:hmm: anyways, i've amounted a fair colection of dslr glass (canon) and a decent microphone, recently my camera's focus has been acting up and there is no way to manually adjust it. long story short (too late) i have about 500 dollars at my disposal for a good long lasting camera, any suggestions?

thanks guys!
-Bryce
 
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Since you have Canon glass, it would make sense to stick with Canon. $500 will get you a T3i body ($499 from B&H). Of course, that doesn't account for SD cards or extra batteries.

And you say you have a decent microphone: what about a decent recorder, plus headphones? Boom pole, shock mount, and wind protection?
 
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Duck & Dog Productions said:
I do have a boom pole, headphones, wind protection, and a shock mount. but i do not have a separate recorder. forgive my ignorance:blush: but wouldn't the recording in the camera itself suffice?
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totally depends on the camera
for something like a black magic pocket cinema camera, it's terrible at monitoring audio levels if i understand correctly
 
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As are most DSLRs. Not to mention audio recording on DSLRs is pretty bad in the first place, you'll want something that was made primarily as an audio recorder (not a DLSR). My advice would be to find a used 50D, 60D, 550D, 600D, or 650D (I've seen these models used on CL ranging from 3 to 600) and a used Zoom (saw a H4n used on CL MPLS today for 150) or Tascam recorder. I bet you could find the 2 for around 500 bucks and that would round out a basic set up pretty nicely.
 
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Duck & Dog Productions said:
forgive my ignorance:blush: but wouldn't the recording in the camera itself suffice?
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Not with a DSLR. These cameras have notoriously lousy in-camera audio circuits, piss-poor level control, and often no way to monitor audio during recording.

But then, even with dedicated video cameras that have decent audio recording, nothing beats a high-quality, dedicated, separate audio recording system.
 
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sfoster said:
in my last film we got really awesome sound out of the Panasonic AG-AC 160 with a rode ntg3. Not sure if that is a DSLR or not.
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Do you know what a DSLR is? Digital Single Lens Reflex. It's a digital stills camera that happens to shoot HD video. It's a VERY different form factor from a video camera.

The Panasonic AC160 is a traditional video camera.
 
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AcousticAl said:
Do you know what a DSLR is? Digital Single Lens Reflex. It's a digital stills camera that happens to shoot HD video. It's a VERY different form factor from a video camera.

The Panasonic AC160 is a traditional video camera.
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Yes I know what DSLR stands for, but a couple quick google searches didn't turn up anything about dslr or mirrorless for the panasonic and I wasn't going to keep researching all night.

it's still digital. what makes it traditional, mirrorless ?
 
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Duck & Dog Productions said:
I'm assuming the 650D would be the better choice as it seems to be a later model...?
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The 650D is known as Rebel t4i in the US. The 600D is the t3i that AcousticAl mentioned above. I'm sure either of these cameras would suit you well, but neither will allow you to record great audio.

ML will add lots of additional functionality to the video modes of the above cameras, as well as to the photography modes of your xti (aka 400D). Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, it will not add video functionality to a camera that doesn't already have that ability.
 
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sfoster said:
Yes I know what DSLR stands for, but a couple quick google searches didn't turn up anything about dslr or mirrorless for the panasonic...
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Because it is NOT a DSLR. Not even close.

sfoster said:
it's still digital. what makes it traditional, mirrorless ?
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Digital has NOTHING to do with it. Both form and function are wholly different between a video camera and a stills camera, though the function line is blurred now with DSLR video recording.

Video cameras of today, which are digital and file-based (with some tape-based digitals still in use), descend from analog tape-based video cameras. They are designed specifically for recording video (moving images), offering ONLY and electronic viewfinder (no, there is no mirror and no way to implement an optical viewfinder), audio recording inputs and monitoring outputs, video outputs, and lots of other video-related bells and whistles. Controls are labeled in terms of electronic video (analog and digital), with the big difference being GAIN (vs. ISO on a DSLR). Traditional video cameras also offer a servo zoom (controlled by buttons and rocker switches). Plus, the form factor is larger, often shoulder-mounted, with things like top handles built in.

DSLRs descend from SLRs, which shoot still frames only and on film. They have optical viewfinders, and controls laid out for capture of still images. They have ISO setting as opposed to gain. As a side-note, mirrorless is not DSLR. The "reflex" in SLR and TLR refers to the mirror that reflects the incoming image to an optical viewfinder. No mirror, no reflection, no optical viewfinder.

Video camera:
6584.jpg


DSLR:
DSLR.jpg
 
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Get a Canon T2i. It's a great camera, without being too pricy, and if you donwload Magic Lantern, you can disable automatic gain control, and you can plug a mic into it. Magic Lantern also allows you to monitor the audio levels.


But when you can afford it, get a separate device for recording audio.
 
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AcousticAl said:
Because it is NOT a DSLR. Not even close.



Digital has NOTHING to do with it. Both form and function are wholly different between a video camera and a stills camera, though the function line is blurred now with DSLR video recording.

Video cameras of today, which are digital and file-based (with some tape-based digitals still in use), descend from analog tape-based video cameras. They are designed specifically for recording video (moving images), offering ONLY and electronic viewfinder (no, there is no mirror and no way to implement an optical viewfinder), audio recording inputs and monitoring outputs, video outputs, and lots of other video-related bells and whistles. Controls are labeled in terms of electronic video (analog and digital), with the big difference being GAIN (vs. ISO on a DSLR). Traditional video cameras also offer a servo zoom (controlled by buttons and rocker switches). Plus, the form factor is larger, often shoulder-mounted, with things like top handles built in.

DSLRs descend from SLRs, which shoot still frames only and on film. They have optical viewfinders, and controls laid out for capture of still images. They have ISO setting as opposed to gain. As a side-note, mirrorless is not DSLR. The "reflex" in SLR and TLR refers to the mirror that reflects the incoming image to an optical viewfinder. No mirror, no reflection, no optical viewfinder.
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Your images have screwed up the margins and made everything really difficult to read.

And I was saying it's digital hence not a "traditional" video camera because traditional ones take film. not digital

Just last week I created a thread to discuss the difference between mirroless and DSLR
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=51863
 
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sfoster said:
Your images have screwed up the margins and made everything really difficult to read.
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Apologies. Replaced with smaller images. Damn iPad posting...

sfoster said:
And I was saying it's digital hence not a "traditional" video camera because traditional ones take film. not digital
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A traditional VIDEO camera does not take FILM. It records to tape. And for clarification, it may be helpful to refer to these as "camcorders" from here out. Further, "traditional" refers more to the form factor than the recording format.

There are also two kinds of film cameras: still, and motion picture. These are also very different from each other in form and function.

sfoster said:
Just last week I created a thread to discuss the difference between mirroless and DSLR
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=51863
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Ah, yes. Again, "mirrorless" refers to stills cameras. There were NEVER mirrors in video cameras/camcorders. Ever.

Mirrorless vs. DSLR would be EOS-M vs. T2i.

AG-AC160 vs. T2i would be camcorder vs. DSLR. Very, very different comparison.

And there are posts in that thread that are saying the same things I am:

wheatgrinder said:
Now, if your talking VIDEO\CINEMA cameras then none of them have mirrors.
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brunerww said:
... but it's not just the mirror that deters me from buying a DSLR for shooting video, it's that most (but not all) DSLRs lack the critical mass of video-centric features that I grew up with back in film and tape days, e.g.,.
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Thank you, I'm starting to understand the variations here.
So how does one identify a traditional video camera, I see when i look up the panasonic it is referred to as camcorder. That's the key word I should be looking for if it didn't originate as a still camera?
 
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Duck & Dog Productions said:
also i've heard about a firmware called magic lantern. I do own the original rebel Xti. would magic lantern update this to allow video recording? it currently does not have a video function.
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If it can't do it now, magic lantern won't allow it to do it later. In your case, the Xti does not record video.

ML can handle issues like fixing the volume controls for recording in-camera so that you don't have to deal with automatic gain control. If you have a high-output, low noise preamp, you can use your camera to record good sound, too. Juicedlink makes some good ones, but they're about as expensive as a field recorder. You get the big advantage that you don't have to sync audio. The sound will be plenty good enough using an external mic and a preamp, and Juicedlink claims that it records with as much SNR as the cheaper field recorders. Without a decent preamp, the internal sound will probably have a lot of hiss because the camera's preamps aren't particularly good.

You're looking at getting one of the rebels that does record video, but it can be an old one. Consider buying used, too but test it out (or bring a friend that knows a lot about canon cameras to test it for you). Buy a couple large, medium-fast memory cards and an extra battery. And test out the video shooting for at least 5 minutes, download it to a laptop, and play it back on the screen before you buy a used camera.

You might even consider the cheap EOS-M with an EF adapter. You can find them on sale new, for under $400.
 
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mad_hatter said:
ML will add lots of additional functionality to the video modes of the above cameras, as well as to the photography modes of your xti (aka 400D). Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, it will not add video functionality to a camera that doesn't already have that ability.
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Magic Lantern has a hack that enables video recording on the Canon 50D. 50Ds are available on ebay for $300-$350-ish.

For a separate audio recorder, I like the Tascam DR100 mkII. That one will set you back about $250 on ebay. Don't forget about XLR cables.
 
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