Don't fall into the trap.

With all the talk and obsession on cameras, lenses, lighting, special effects, budgets etc, I see many are forgetting the NUMBER 1 most important thing. We are simply STORY TELLERS.
The "GEAR" is simply a tool to do that just as a pen is to a writer.

I see so many "film makers" spending countless hours on forums talking about this lens, that camera, formats, software, etc, etc etc. But I rarely see anyone focusing on writing a kick butt story!!

We are film makers to TELL STORIES.

PLEASE, Obsess LESS on gear, and first and foremost on developing and writing a GREAT STORY.

You can create a technically great film but if the story sucks, it's just another bad movie.

STORY, STORY, STORY. Focus on the STORY!!!! All the other stuff are just tools to do the job.
CastleFox is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message
 
Good 'ol Uncle Bob (yours truly) is one of the cynics around here. I'm always commenting about skills vs. gear.

I also believe that most indie wannabes fall into that trap, believing that they already are great story-tellers. And a surprisingly large percentage of them can spin a decent yarn. Where most fail is with the filmmaking process - their stories are larger than their filmmaking skills, filmmaking knowledge and much larger than their budgets.

Great stories are full of wonderful details. Novels are full of evocative and immersive details, allowing the reader to experience the story. As filmmaking is an audio-visual medium the filmmaker needs to create these sonic and visual details to enhance the richness of the story. And this is where 99% of indie filmmakers fall down, they don't bother with the visual details (set design, art direction, wardrobe, hair/MU, etc.) and sonic details (Foley, sound effects). The other half of the filmmaking process abounds with technical, financial and managerial details ignored by 99.9999% indie filmmakers; they just want to get to the shooting.
 
Good 'ol Uncle Bob (yours truly) is one of the cynics around here. I'm always commenting about skills vs. gear.

I also believe that most indie wannabes fall into that trap, believing that they already are great story-tellers. And a surprisingly large percentage of them can spin a decent yarn. Where most fail is with the filmmaking process - their stories are larger than their filmmaking skills, filmmaking knowledge and much larger than their budgets.

Great stories are full of wonderful details. Novels are full of evocative and immersive details, allowing the reader to experience the story. As filmmaking is an audio-visual medium the filmmaker needs to create these sonic and visual details to enhance the richness of the story. And this is where 99% of indie filmmakers fall down, they don't bother with the visual details (set design, art direction, wardrobe, hair/MU, etc.) and sonic details (Foley, sound effects). The other half of the filmmaking process abounds with technical, financial and managerial details ignored by 99.9999% indie filmmakers; they just want to get to the shooting.


I could create a list of things Indie film makers don't put enough effort in, but the biggest thing that stands out to me is how little focus is ever on the actual story "screen play." You don't need a wild yarn and huge budgets to write a good story. They master Rod Serling is one great example. Much of his work was simple character driven stories. The sets were often very basic some shot just in the desert.

I'm not trying to make an entire shortcoming list, we all have them and are always students of the art.
 
Good 'ol Uncle Bob (yours truly) is one of the cynics around here. I'm always commenting about skills vs. gear.

I also believe that most indie wannabes fall into that trap, believing that they already are great story-tellers. And a surprisingly large percentage of them can spin a decent yarn. Where most fail is with the filmmaking process - their stories are larger than their filmmaking skills, filmmaking knowledge and much larger than their budgets.

Great stories are full of wonderful details. Novels are full of evocative and immersive details, allowing the reader to experience the story. As filmmaking is an audio-visual medium the filmmaker needs to create these sonic and visual details to enhance the richness of the story. And this is where 99% of indie filmmakers fall down, they don't bother with the visual details (set design, art direction, wardrobe, hair/MU, etc.) and sonic details (Foley, sound effects). The other half of the filmmaking process abounds with technical, financial and managerial details ignored by 99.9999% indie filmmakers; they just want to get to the shooting.

Most film makers aren't faced with the task of trying to convert a wonderfully told Novel into a screen play and then into a movie. Most are trying to write their own stories with decent material.

My point is that many indie film makers want to just get the camera rolling and overlook the entire purpose for what they are doing. The story.
The "Story" or screen play is the foundation. No story, no film.
A good story doesn't have to be full of BIG budget blowing material. In fact, some of the best stories told were done with simple sets, but powerful characters. Which brings me to my other item. TALENT.

You can get away with less technically perfect movies with an audience if you hire great talent who can bring your great story to life.

You can have the best lighting, and most detailed sets, but with amateur talent trying to deliver a performance for a poor story, it's a beautiful disaster.
 
story is totally subjective. I've never found anyone with tastes completely aligned to mine.

camera work, lenses, etc is objective. it's more productive to discuss that sort of thing with expects in their field, rather than talk in circles around a story idea.

anyway I have the exact opposite problem you speak of. I am focusing way too much on my story and preproduction when I need to just get out there and shoot!
 
I could create a list of things Indie film makers don't put enough effort in, but the biggest thing that stands out to me is how little focus is ever on...
... marketing and promotion.
Before, during, and after actual filming production.


Filmmaking
is not
a meritocracy. :no:
 
Most film makers aren't faced with the task of trying to convert a wonderfully told Novel into a screen play and then into a movie. Most are trying to write their own stories with decent material.

I didn't say that they are attempting to recreate a novel; they are supposed to create a filmic reality that the audience will find believable. Those details are what give richness to the screenplay, and when you are making a film those details are aural and visual. Pick a great film and it's the sonic and visual details that expand upon the characters and the world they inhabit.
 
Musicians refer to it as Gear Acquisition Syndrome (or GAS for short).

A new guitar is always nice. A new guitar will not make you a better musician. It's good to have goals and a plan for the rig you want, but it shouldn't stop you from doing the best you can with what you have.
 
I always say that it doesn't matter what kind of equipment you have, if you can tell a good story, frame properly, and edit, then you can film on anything. Even a webcam.
 
We are simply STORY TELLERS...
We are film makers to TELL STORIES. PLEASE, Obsess LESS on gear, and first and foremost on developing and writing a GREAT STORY.

Huh? I find your post quite confusing. I entirely agree with the first part of your post, narrative film making is indeed ALL about story telling but then your next piece of advice is baffling, to go and write a great story? Surely if film making is all about story telling then shouldn't film makers be obsessing about how to tell stories, rather than about how to write them?

I personally believe that a mediocre story which is exceptionally well told (through the medium of film) is going to be orders of magnitude better than a film with a great story which is very poorly told! I agree that many obsess too much about the equipment but I think obsessing too much about creating a great story rather than obsessing about how best to tell a story is potentially just as damaging.

OK... so the message is A) Story, B) Talent, C) Sound.

NO! A) Story, B) Story telling ability! If sound design is done well, then by definition it is "B" and there is no need to list sound separately as "C"!!

G
 
Last edited:
With all the talk and obsession on cameras, lenses, lighting, special effects, budgets etc, I see many are forgetting the NUMBER 1 most important thing. We are simply STORY TELLERS.
The "GEAR" is simply a tool to do that just as a pen is to a writer.

I see so many "film makers" spending countless hours on forums talking about this lens, that camera, formats, software, etc, etc etc. But I rarely see anyone focusing on writing a kick butt story!!

We are film makers to TELL STORIES.

PLEASE, Obsess LESS on gear, and first and foremost on developing and writing a GREAT STORY.

You can create a technically great film but if the story sucks, it's just another bad movie.

STORY, STORY, STORY. Focus on the STORY!!!! All the other stuff are just tools to do the job.
CastleFox is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message

But... I like gear. I'm a guy. I can't help it. Toys are fun to obsess about. A blinking cursor on a blank page... not so much.
 
story is totally subjective. I've never found anyone with tastes completely aligned to mine.

camera work, lenses, etc is objective. it's more productive to discuss that sort of thing with expects in their field, rather than talk in circles around a story idea.

I'm not sure I agree with you that Camera work, lenses, etc. is objective. Audio is probably the only thing that is objective. It is either bad or good. But visuals are a matter of taste. You may think that you need a light to separate the talent from the background, because a lot of people told you that it is the correct and objective thing to do. I may feel it is completely unnecessary, and not having 'separation' is more realistic. Watch Blue Valentine. Most of the film was shot with no lights, and a maximum of "one" light was ever allowed on set. That was a condition of employment from the director to the cinematographer. There is no 'separation from the background.' And the movie looks visually perfect to me. It might not to others. So that's subjective.

You may like shaky cam. I have a friend who gets physically affected when he watches shaky cam, and he wants to violently throw up. It is just an extreme physical reaction in this one person, but he can't take it. I love it. So I think that's subjective too.

Not trying to pick on what you're saying. (Edit: Actually probably more people agree with you than with me.) Just pointing out that most things are subjective, despite what the experts say.

Audio on the other hand... friggin ridiculously objective. And you need a goddamn expert. Bloody sucks.

Edit: I also wanted to add, that I very much agree with CastleFox' sentiments. We waste too much time thinking about how cool the gear is, and not enough time thinking about how to use that gear effectively.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure I agree with you that Camera work, lenses, etc. is objective. Audio is probably the only thing that is objective. It is either bad or good......

Audio on the other hand... friggin ridiculously objective. And you need a goddamn expert. Bloody sucks.

So you're saying that audio is strictly a technical exercise? On set, maybe; but audio post is something else entirely. And even on the set the talented production sound professionals agonize over mic choices, lav choices/placement, etc., and do it under extremely restrictive conditions.

Audio is just as subjective as visuals. I don't just plug in any door; in addition to matching the visual cue the door has to be appropriate to the characters actions and state of mind, appropriate to the scene and appropriate to the mood of the film, and then is further enhanced during the rerecording process.

And compared to my efforts what the masters of sound-for-picture accomplish in creating a believable sonic reality is truly extraordinary. The problem with sound-for-picture is that the better it is the less you notice it - even for those of us who do it for a living.
 
So you're saying that audio is strictly a technical exercise? On set, maybe; but audio post is something else entirely. And even on the set the talented production sound professionals agonize over mic choices, lav choices/placement, etc., and do it under extremely restrictive conditions.

Audio is just as subjective as visuals. I don't just plug in any door; in addition to matching the visual cue the door has to be appropriate to the characters actions and state of mind, appropriate to the scene and appropriate to the mood of the film, and then is further enhanced during the rerecording process.

And compared to my efforts what the masters of sound-for-picture accomplish in creating a believable sonic reality is truly extraordinary. The problem with sound-for-picture is that the better it is the less you notice it - even for those of us who do it for a living.

Haha.. oh my lord. I stand corrected. I just don't know enough about audio to notice the art in it.

What I was really trying to say is that in visuals, there is a lot of things to like or to dislike. And one can set different rules, and create different standards. What I was trying to say is that in audio, technical prowess is more exact and less subject to artistic choices. But obviously I was wrong. :lol:

There was no ill intent on my part. Just ignorance.
 
What I was trying to say is that in audio, technical prowess is more exact and less subject to artistic choices. But obviously I was wrong. :lol:

Actually, it's completely the other way around, cinematography is more exact and less subject to artistic choices than audio!

Let me give you an example, let's say you're filming something in a suburb of a city, you only have 3 main artistic choices with the cinematography; 1. Your shot composition, where you point your camera and what is included in the frame. 2. How you light what is in this frame and 3. What in the frame you focus on, DOF, etc. With cinematography all you are doing in effect capturing what is in happening in front of the camera, to create the visual world of the film. With audio post we are doing a similar thing, creating an audio world (a soundscape) but the difference is we are not limited by what's happening in front of us, we are limited by nothing except our imagination.

For example our soundscape may or may not include: The sound of background road traffic, heavy or light, fast or slow moving, quite close, very distant or anywhere in between, it may or may not include motorbikes, trucks, buses, etc. We may or may not hear police or ambulance sirens again close or distant. We might hear passenger jets passing overhead, or police/news helicopters or small, private aircraft. We might hear birds; sinister crows cawing or pleasant song birds, many of them or few, close, far or both. We might hear children playing, laughing and shouting, close or far or maybe hear a couple fighting in their apartment with the window open. Maybe we can hear someone listening to their TV or music system, maybe they are listening to a violent film/music or maybe it's something nice and relaxing. Maybe we can hear some distant or close construction sounds, maybe it's a bit of local DIY or some heavy commercial construction. Maybe we want to give the impression of a school somewhere in the vicinity or a factory or train station, etc. Maybe there are some dogs barking, maybe they are cute pet barks or maybe they are dangerous and aggressive pitbulls, dobermans, etc. The list goes on and on, only limited by your imagination of the sounds which COULD believably be present in whatever type of soundscape we wish to create. We can have as many or as few of these sounds as we want, at different distances, to make a dense or sparse soundscape. We can make this soundscape pleasant, relaxing, aggressive, threatening, sinister or pretty much anything we want emotionally to support the story. We can make any of the elements of this soundscape almost inaudible or so loud they are almost deafening. We can place these elements of our soundscape pretty much anywhere within a 360deg soundfield, they can be stationary or move slowly or quickly from any place to any other, depending on the movement, pace and energy we want to create. And, we can change and evolve this soundscape throughout the scene, add and remove elements, make those elements more present or less or change their feel, to create hidden implications to aid or confuse the story. And, all this is just the atmospheric soundscape, we haven't even mentioned the Foley or the dialogue processing to create different emotional feels/meanings, pace and energy!

For any given second of any given scene our artistic audio choices and options could be virtually limitless! The art of sound design is frequently just as much about what we choose to leave out as what we decide to include. But it is an art, not just a technique and, it's arguably the most creative of all the film arts.

Maybe this thread will help you understand sound design a little better.

G
 
Last edited:
Back
Top