Does this scene look convincing?

H

harmonica44

http://youtu.be/n88RZfEBk_o

The knife is suppose to be going into the back of his head, diagonally through the side sort of. You don't see the knife go into the back of his head in the previous shots, but it's implied in the angles. I tried a lot of takes to make the aftermath shot look convincing, but that was my best one unfortunately. Does it look convincing, or does it look fake, and I need to redo it? Thanks.
 
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I'd say cut at the :06 mark. put in a extreme face close up (of the guy removing the knife) showing him cringing, then cut to a close up of his hand holding the knife with it blood dripping off it. And if you happen to have footage of the guy lying on the floor dead after the knife was removed, you can cut to that in the end.

It's all about creating illusions.
 
Hmm okay, but I thought it looks fake, before he pulls the knife out and the way he pulls actually looks more real, than just the guy laying on it. Unless I'm wrong.
 
You could pull back and show the person's left arm moving, but a good actor would be able to convey through is face that he's pulling a knife out of a head. Try a bunch of takes and see if one works, if not, pull back and get the arm in.

After the head CS, cut to the knife CS in his hand which will convey he pulled it out.

This whole sequence of 4 clips shouldn't run more than a few seconds total. Fast enough to fool the audience.

Get a bunch of shots and head to the edit suite and see if you can make it work.
 
I tried cutting it different ways, but just the knife sticking out from his head still looks fake, even before the guy reaches for it though.
 
Dude, for less than $2.00 you can buy a plastic prop knife with disappearing spring-loaded blade.

Start the cut/shot with the knife stabbed "in", and when you pull away the blade reveals... looks great.
 
Those knives don't look as real though. You can tell they actually look like fake plastic in the close up shots. At least the ones in the stores where I live did. I still would have to use that knife though, otherwise I would have to redo the whole knife fight.
 
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The way I did it, and it looked great was, I went to the dollar store and bought two of the exact knifes (If you can't afford $2 then...) and cut half the blade off one. I dulled both. You could of course do three The audience sees the long full knife, then the half blade plus blood. I shot from numerous angles, and kept adding blood.

If you put the half blade behind (it would be hard to get a blade through someone's skull.) and had him resting on it, it would give authenticity to something being in him. The killer could flip him over and remove the knife. It's kind of the way they did it in the old days. But, they didn't use blood. If cut properly, it will be completely convincing.
 
Yes, I wanted to get a third knife but the store only had two. I have the sharp one for close up shots, the dull one, for when it comes close to contact, and if only I had a third with the blade cut off. I guess I could cut off the blade of the sharp one and use that still, but I didn't want to ruin a good knife if I didn't have to. What if I put the knife completely behind his head, as if it's going in from behind?

I have coverage shots of him being stabbed from more behind too, so I could use those to go with it. Any tips on doing that, cause I don't want to ruin the sharp ones for close ups.
 
That half one is important. Because if you edit it correctly, you'll see the long blade and then the short one. It really gives the impression the person is stabbed.

Because of the angle of the knife handle, just sticking the knife behind him won't work. You need the handle to be straight out the head. If it's lying on it's side it's like the blade broke off in his head. It would just look bad.

You could even dull and cut the sharp one. All the ones I used in Us Sinners were dulled. I had no intention of taking the chance of an actor getting hurt.
 
Okay but here's the thing. How do I get the cut knife to stick to his head? If I use tape there is a good chance it will show, since the actor does not have much hair and all.

I think I should edit it like GuerrillaAngel said, and not show the knife being pulled out. I will show up to the grab as he is about to pull for when I reshoot it in a couple of days, along with some other shots. But the knife goes in behind his ear. If I use the cut off knife, and move it up one inch hire, behind his ear, will the audience notice an inch difference if it doesn't show the knife being pulled at that angle?

Here's an edit:

http://youtu.be/nvQmZg89jd0

I will stick another shot in between the two shots, but does that edit look convincing enough for a knife behind the ear? If not I will see if I can get more fake blood for a reshoot. But how do I make the knife look real, even though it's behind his ear, anyway, and you can't see the inch difference, if I do a reshoot that way? I want it to be behind his ear. But if I tape it, then the knife just hangs, so how do I get it to stick out straight, and not flop down?
 
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I would use a combination of practical fx and CGI to create the shot.

I would get a styrofoam head and make it up to look like your actor. You can use this tutorial on how to make it:

http://www.indymogul.com/post/1777/

Then film a close up shot of your actor pulling the knife out of the fake head.

Then, to get the shot of the knife sticking out of your actor's head, I would start by getting a shot of just the knife laid out at the proper angle on a green screen background. Then composite that shot into a shot similar to the one you've filmed, to make it look like the knife is sticking out of the actor's head. Since the character is dead and won't move. this shouldn't be very difficult. There are lots of tutorials out there for tracking and matte work to accomplish this.

Then edit it all together. Editing it THE KEY to making it all look good.
 
I've looked at some tutorials, and I don't think I am going to be able to master this in time. I have four days before the next shoot, when I am expected to get this right, and I don't think I can master making a styrophome head to look just like the actors before then. Plus green screen takes practice to look convincing. It's not that I don't want to, but I need a back up plan if I can't master it so soon. What if I used photoshop, to bring the knife closer, thereby making it look higher?
 
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I'd say cut at the :06 mark. put in a extreme face close up (of the guy removing the knife) showing him cringing, then cut to a close up of his hand holding the knife with it blood dripping off it. And if you happen to have footage of the guy lying on the floor dead after the knife was removed, you can cut to that in the end.

It's all about creating illusions.
Click to expand...

This should nail it.

Anyways not that I am an expert in it, but shouldnt you try something on the light? Its bit uneven and odd. Would liketo hear some one else to comment on this.

Good luck Harmonica.
 
I'd say cut at the :06 mark. put in a extreme face close up (of the guy removing the knife) showing him cringing, then cut to a close up of his hand holding the knife with it blood dripping off it. And if you happen to have footage of the guy lying on the floor dead after the knife was removed, you can cut to that in the end.

It's all about creating illusions.
Click to expand...

This should nail it.

Anyways not that I am an expert in it, but shouldnt you try something on the light? Its bit uneven and odd. Would liketo hear some one else to comment on this.

Good luck Harmonica.
 
Thanks I will cut it at :06 if it WILL WORK. It's hard for me to judge my own work since I know it's all fake. What do you mean the light exactly?
 
harmonica44 said:
I've looked at some tutorials, and I don't think I am going to be able to master this in time. I have four days before the next shoot, when I am expected to get this right, and I don't think I can master making a styrophome head to look just like the actors before then. Plus green screen takes practice to look convincing. It's not that I don't want to, but I need a back up plan if I can't master it so soon. What if I used photoshop, to bring the knife closer, thereby making it look higher?
Click to expand...

That's why I said that editing is the key. The styrofoam head doesn't have to look realistic to the point that someone staring at it will be fooled. It only has to stand up to a quick shot.

If you're not comfortable with compositing, build a knife prop by bending the blade 90 degrees and duct taping it to an L-bracket. Then your actor's head can go on top of the L-bracket to hold the knife elevated off of the floor. If you get the camera angel right, you 'll only see the knife handle and part of the blade, and not the point of entry.

Then if you get a shot of the blade being pulled from the styrofoam head, it will only take a split second of that shot, along with a quick cut to the shot with the guy holding the knife with brain matter on it to sell the shot.

If you're looking for a good gore shot, this will work, and should be reletively easy.
 
If the knife is an inch higher no one will notice. Here's what I'd do, since I don't do CGI or anything like that.

You have the half knife behind the ear. If you position him correctly, you just have it there. No tape, no nothing. Basically his ear and skull are keeping it wedged to the ground.

Then you do a take behind the killer who grabs the knife and pushes the body over.

Then you do a take where he brings the full knife in view. If you edit it correctly, it will look like he's pulling it out. Just be sure to have plenty of blood on the blade.
 
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