editing Do I have to show a 'dissolve' in order for the audience to understand this?

[harmonica44]

I am editing a project that some filmmaking associates and I made. However, there is one scene change that our test viewers found jarring. An actor has a beard in the scene, then it cuts to the next scene and the beard is gone. They asked why doesn't he have a beard all of a sudden?

However, the next scene takes place at least a day later I would think, and the actor is wearing different clothes, so I thought the audience would be smart enough to assume he would have had time to shave in between.

However, they find this jarring cause in one scene he has it, then cut to the next scene, and it's gone. I could show a dissolve, but their is narration over the scene, and I feel the dissolve would be emotionally inappropriate to the mood and pacing, since the character is narrating what his plan is to the others, as the scene plays out.

Do I have to show a dissolve, or is there another way I could make it less jarring to the audience? Thanks!

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. If the next scene happens the next day though, does that count as continuous or not continuous? How much time in the story has to go by for it to count as not continuous?

 

[Sweetie]

If the next scene happens the next day though, does that count as continuous or not continuous? How much time in the story has to go by for it to count as not continuous?

It could be zero seconds or years for both questions. They're situational questions and don't have definitive answers.

It isn't used often where a passage of time has occurred though a transition is used to bridge the scenes to make them continuous. The new Tom Hanks video has an example of this where he ducks his head, when he pops back up he's in a different location, though it's meant to feel continuous. At about the 40 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV5lzRHrGeg

So while technically it's a new scene, the way that the transition is used makes it continuous. Starting to understand context yet?

Similar with Birdman, though that's designed to have a completely different effect to blend scenes together to make it appear it's one continuous non-stop shot. It uses different techniques to make time seem continuous.

Lost you, right?

Batman Begins, but how did they do it, that is so different?

While I'm not sure of what scenes in particular you're talking about, but any competent make up artist is able to handle that. Once again, that is not an editing question.

For some reason, this thread with you reminds me of this scene from Hancock. Cannot figure out why... Maybe if you look close, you can see the make up continuity errors. Anyone, ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z51e45W0Tdk

Post your video so we can take a look instead of keeping your head up your ass.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

If the next scene happens the next day though, does that count as continuous or not continuous? How much time in the story has to go by for it to count as not continuous?

Again, huh? You want a specific answer/rule? OK, how about 1 hour 26 minutes and 4.5 seconds?!

Your question is irrelevant! It's irrelevant because as Sweetie stated it could be virtually any amount of time depending on context and it's irrelevant because the exact amount of time has nothing to do with your current situation. If your two scenes appear continuous then the only logical explanation for your character not having a beard in the second scene is a filmmaking (continuity) error. If the audience perceive that the two scenes are not continuous then there's an additional logical explanation for your character not having a beard, IE., that the beard was shaved off in whatever time elapsed. How well you create this perception of dis-continuity will largely determine which explanation the audience are likely to jump to.

G

 

[FantasyFilmProductions]

Again, huh? You want a specific answer/rule? OK, how about 1 hour 26 minutes and 4.5 seconds?!

Your question is irrelevant! It's irrelevant because as Sweetie stated it could be virtually any amount of time depending on context and it's irrelevant because the exact amount of time has nothing to do with your current situation. If your two scenes appear continuous then the only logical explanation for your character not having a beard in the second scene is a filmmaking (continuity) error. If the audience perceive that the two scenes are not continuous then there's an additional logical explanation for your character not having a beard, IE., that the beard was shaved off in whatever time elapsed. How well you create this perception of dis-continuity will largely determine which explanation the audience are likely to jump to.

G

In a nutshell....^^^^what he said!!!

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. I thought that continuous meant when scenes are literally continuing off of each other, such as an actor entering a doorway from one scene, then cutting to the other end of the door in the next scene. I didn't know a few hours later could was still called continuous, but that's just my screenplay language talking, not editing of course. So basically an audience will think the next day is continuous if you edit it in a way to be continuous. Well I could put a sound in to break the continuity, I just have to think of a sound that will work for that purpose. Thanks.

 

[FantasyFilmProductions]

crickets chirping generally indicates night time on a black scene...this can show a night has passed

 

[AudioPostExpert]

So basically an audience will think the next day is continuous if you edit it in a way to be continuous.

You appear to be thinking in terms of what the script says rather than in terms of what the audience will perceive, a fairly common filmmaking error. In other words, you have it backwards! If you edit two scenes together which are perceived as continuous, the audience will not know that the second scene is supposed to be the next day.

crickets chirping generally indicates night time on a black scene...this can show a night has passed

Possibly, it would depend on context. The common ways of showing elapsed time would be a fade to and then fade from black, less commonly some other type of relatively slow transition or maybe inserting some additional footage to indicate the passage of time. H44 has ruled out these and other similar methods as he feels it will negatively affect the pacing. Hence why I'm suggesting possible alternative ways of breaking the continuity.

Well I could put a sound in to break the continuity, I just have to think of a sound that will work for that purpose.

Great idea, except for the inconvenient fact that just adding a sound would not necessarily break the continuity! What is the "sound" of the first scene? By this I mean the sound-scape as a whole; what is the room tone, what is the acoustic information (reverb), what are the ambient sounds, what is the aural perspective of the dialogue and therefore what is the aural feel of the environment depicted in the first scene? To create continuity between the two scenes one would continue, unchanged and uninterrupted, some or all of these sonic elements and maintain aural continuity across the cut. Ideally there would be one or more particular ambient sounds (say a distant aircraft pass-by), deliberately placed to straddle the visual cut. If we are trying to achieve the opposite; dis-continuity, then we need to do the opposite with the sound too. Generally, the more of those sonic elements are changed, the more severe/obvious those changes and the more suddenly they occur, the more dis-continuity the audience will perceive. In other words, in this situation, just adding a sound might not be enough, the room-tone, ambience and entire sound-scape would probably need to be changed and in a fairly obvious manner.

Although I hate to advise it, considering the debacle of a previous thread, a perceivable change in the grading between the two scenes, together with an appropriate change in sound design, would likely further aid the perception of a deliberate dis-continuity.

G

 

[WalterB]

Post the 2 scenes!
We are all talking theory now.
You want a real solution?
Show us what you are talking about.

Now we all do all kind of possible suggestions that might work in a certain context.
Stop wasting your and our time: show what it is about!