directors how much do you get involved with Camerawork

[derek smith]

for Directors, how involved do you become involved in the Camera work during a shot nad editing...I ask, as ive finished my first Short Film, and had some advice that the framing was off (some scenes didn't add anything, were others showed too much empty space that wasn't required and not often of the character etc)....Probaly due to inexerpience, I picked my shot lost for the film, but this changed as I put a lot of faith in my cameraman, but agree with the criticisms of the film.

So how much do you get involved or do you mostly trust your cameraman, as ive read some directors have little to do with both camera work and editing

 

[sfoster]

I welcome ideas and input from my DP but I personally design a complete storyboard before any shooting.

 

[derek smith]

I welcome ideas and input from my DP but I personally design a complete storyboard before any shooting.

yeah, that was one bit I didn't actually do, so wont make that mistake again....My thing is, I''m not sure ill ever be that skilled in judging the framing during a production...I know what shots I want etc, but being able to tell if its coming out completely right during production might be an area ill struggle with...that's why im hoping the more experience, I can attract better DP

 

[sfoster]

yeah, that was one bit I didn't actually do, so wont make that mistake again....My thing is, I''m not sure ill ever be that skilled in judging the framing during a production...I know what shots I want etc, but being able to tell if its coming out completely right during production might be an area ill struggle with...that's why im hoping the more experience, I can attract better DP

As you make stuff you'll beat yourself up over shots that you didn't get right.
That sort of experience is great for making sure you don't miss shots again in the future.

Not everyone storyboards but I'm still inexperienced enough that I like to do it. On complex shots I'm afraid I'll mess up the 180 rule if I don't have it planned out.

 

[directorik]

As you are learning and learning with an inexperienced DP some of your
choices may not be the best. So use that to learn. Do not lose faith in your
DP who is also learning.

To answer the question; I don't get involved in camerawork when I'm
directing. I love the collaboration. And that's the key for me. We talk. And
we talk a lot. I never storyboard and I rarely do a shot list.

 

[Sweetie]

for Directors, how involved do you become involved in the Camera work during a shot nad editing

I can go either way with the shooting. The more I direct, the more I'm getting intimately involved with the camera, lighting and even sound.

Always for editing.

 

[Sweetie]

being able to tell if its coming out completely right during production might be an area ill struggle with

Improving your editing skills can help in this regard.

 

[derek smith]

As you are learning and learning with an inexperienced DP some of your
choices may not be the best. So use that to learn. Do not lose faith in your
DP who is also learning.

To answer the question; I don't get involved in camerawork when I'm
directing. I love the collaboration. And that's the key for me. We talk. And
we talk a lot. I never storyboard and I rarely do a shot list.

I actually loved getting involved in the other aspects of the Production and Editing. Think we spent 2 hours, 4 nights a week for 4 months editing, but after some of the reviews regarding the Camera work, I'm disspointed with the quality of the film. No issue involved if the DoP was a complete amateur, as im still very proud of what we have completed, but the DoP / Editor has a massive ego, and would tell me how great he was at this and that...Signs weren't good on the Shoot, when he forgot to charge his batteries and we nearly lost the entire shoot, but for finding late minute replacements

 

[WalterB]

I usually storyboard when I direct. (As a student I even storyboarded shorts I just did sound for but that was while the whole team sat down to discuss the shots.)
But I must say, I usually direct short things where there is not much of prep time with the DOP before the shoot. (Often there is a rush or the budget won't allow it.)

Both methods can work pretty well.
Directorik leaves it to the DOP, but as I read it, the DOP has the time to prepare.
And in essence it is all about preparation.

Don't torture yourself thinking your first short is bad.
It is not bad, it just has room for improvement.
Your DOP will learn to see that as well; now he is still on the 'finished the shot'-high.
When you're a beginner you don't see everything like experienced people yet, and that's okay. We all started there.
After making more stuff he and you will learn more, make better decisions and see what you could have done better. What could have been done better is always in hindsight or from the sidelines.

Forgetting to charge batteries is a mistake everyone makes at least once.
It are the mistakes you need to make to never make them again.
It even happened to a producer I work with a lot: even after years of experience he brought a camera with 15 minutes of battery time to a small event.
I had to shoot it and still managed to create a 2,5 minute video...

Don't tell your DOP his work is bad.
You can encourage him to post it somewhere for feedback
His ego might be hurt at first, but at least not by you

 

[directorik]

but after some of the reviews regarding the Camera work, I'm disspointed with the quality of the film.

You're disappointed with the quality of your first short? Then you're
doing it right. You didn't think your first short film was going to be
an exceptional, top of the line amazing masterwork. You knew it was
going to be disappointing. And you knew you would learn from it.

but the DoP / Editor has a massive ego, and would tell me how great he was at this and that...

Another learning experience - on your first short film. Move on. Don't
work with him again. Expand your connections.

Going back to your original question the issue here isn't you (the director)
getting more involved in camera work. It's you (the producer/director)
using the right people. And that will take time. Even if you were more
involved in the camera work you may have missed the battery issue.
Mistakes happen. You didn't make any?

However, if you feel you won't make any mistakes (like the batteries)
and you will always choose better shots then you should be the DP on
your next movie. My advice is to keep making movies with different
people. Volunteer on movies being made. If you were to make just one
movie every four months and volunteer on just one every six months
by this time next year you will have experience on five movies. From my
first short to my first "good" short I made an average of one short film
a month for two years. I sure learned a lot. Most of them were terrible.
My first "good" one won multiple awards. By then I had assembled a
terrific team.

<added> Now that I've seen your movie I don't believe the issue is the
camera work. It's actually quite good. A few mistakes and a few "first-timer"
poor choices, but overall good. The lighting is poor, not the camera work.
I can't comment on the ego issue but your DP is quite talented. He needs
to work on his lighting.

 

[film_autre]

whenever i have picked a dp they have always fucked up, always, especially after my previous short God in a box, I decided that the only way for me to shoot successfully was to shoot and direct myself but I absolutely must have an AD on set and runners, this enables me to achieve a good standard and my last short is my best work yet and is awaiting completion and thats solely down to me realising what keeps going wrong and what I could do to correct it, that was one of them.

 

[Theauteur14]

I create the shot list by myself. I don't storyboard live action stuff though. On set I do coordinate the camerawork quite a bit. But I believe in collaboration and the fact that someone will enviably come up with an idea that is better than yours.

Looking back on my last short I was for sure behind every single shot. But I gave my DP room to add his touch to it and come up with a few things as well. I would say what I wanted and he would run with it, and a few times he added in a cool shot or two.

A lot of it has to do with trust. It's amazing when you trust people how they can step up.

As for editing I feel that is really where movies are made. I make sure that I get as creative as possible with that. In the end of the day you need a DP and an editor who will listen, are competent, and confident.

 

[Chris Tempel]

I've done my own camerawork since I started. I find it a waste of time to try to tell someone else what the shot needs to be. I'm also my own editor too, and I think that plays a big role in it. When I direct, I'm editing the film at the same time in my head, grabbing only what I know I need. I will and do gladly bring on someone to help light a scene, but passing off the camera is something that I just can not do. I do narrative films, and have worked this way on around 40 shorts and three features. I don't think there's anything wrong or taboo with a director running camera. You'll learn a lot about the process and be able to better judge whether you want to continue to operate, or would prefer to hand those duties to a dedicated cameraman.