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condenser mic?

D

dvdguy

Hi filmmakers,

Just wondering, is the NTG-2 RODE series mic considered a condenser mic? Sorry to be asking this, its just that I get things confused regarding mics as I am fairly new to the audio world and I am aware that sound 50% the experience :)
You see, I want to get crystal-clear sound on every project I make, thats why I hear condernser mics are the proper tools for this. Well, for that reason, I wont be shooting my audio outside, I always want to do it inside cause of clarity. I hear shooting with mics outside loses a little quality.

1.) what is a good condenser mic (at a price range of 250 - 300 $)
2.) how do I record sound so that it matches when a person is talking? (synching I believe right?) Is it hard to match it? Is it good if I record audio FIRST, and then I record the footage? (with audio in the background)?

Such a noob I am :D
 
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I'm no sound guy but, yes, the Rode NTG-2 is a condenser mic.

But condenser is the microphone type so whilst that is what you want, it's not what you should be worrying about. What you are interested/need to make a decision about is the polar pattern. The NTG-2 is a shotgun mic which means it is highly directional. I know that sound experts on this forum would prefer to use a hypercardioid mic for indoor shooting, but personally I would say if you are only going to get one mic, get a shotgun.

1.) The Rode NTG-2 will serve you fine.

2.) Depends. If you are recording straight into the camera then there's no problem. If you are recording externally then you'll need to sync. You can do this automatically by purchasing a program called PluralEyes or you can do it manually using a clapper bored of some variety. So long as you have decent enough editing software syncing is easy but extraordinarily tedious.
 
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A quick primer...

There are many ways that a mic can work. The two that are most encountered are Dynamic and Condenser.

Dynamic mics have "limited" sensitivity and frequency range. However, they can tolerate very high sound pressure levels and are very rugged. Condenser mics are much more sensitive and have greater frequency range. They can be damaged by extremely loud sounds and are more "delicate". Condensers also require a constant electrical charge, known as Phantom Power. Most condenser mics will require the phantom power from an external source, although a few will have their own battery. You will encounter condensers 99.99% of the time for film/video production sound (dialog) recording.

There are a number of ways that mics will pick up sound, called polar patterns.

Shotgun mics have a Lobar pattern which is very narrow. The off-axis rejection of shotgun mics make them a good choice for outdoors.

SHOTGUN

mg19shotgunrotated.jpg


Then there are cardioid, super-cardioid and hyper-cardioid mics that have a heart-shaped pick-up pattern. Hyper-cardioids are favored for indoors.

patterns.gif

​

Much more important is the skill with which the mic is used. The mic needs to be put in a shock-mount on the end of a boom-pole and very carefully aimed at the actors for optimum dialog pick-up.

For a hyper-cardioid I would recommend the Audio Technica AT4053b or the Oktava mk012.
 
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Great explanation you guys :D

@NickClapper - im thinking of doing all my projects externally for now, because Im looking for quality. Well, I guess what Alcove mentioned should work I guess.

@Alcove - thank you for the nice explanation :). So those 2 mics that you mentioned are great if Im planning to record externally, correct? Because thats what I really intend, beause of the quality of the sound.

Oh yes...I forgot ask. What if I plan to record externally, should I first record the audio and after that let it play in the background so it increases the chances of correct syncing? Or it doesn matter?

(because I noticed in many music video shoots, they let music in the background so that the singer can match the words on time, is it the same for shorts etc.?)
 
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No, you record the audio and video at the same time, just to different devices. The boom operator holds the mic just out of frame, above or slow the actors. He also moves it to point at whoever is talking at the time, since it's a directional mic.

If on set audio isn't good, then in post you do ADR, or "Looping", where you play the bad set audio over and over an the actor re-records it in a studio environment for better sound. If you don't know much about the process yet, then don't rely on this. Focus on getting good set audio.
 
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Too answer the question at the end, yes you can play a track back live if you're shooting a music video. That's because the track is Pre-recorded. Not the norm for actors though.
 
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This is a reminder for me too. I have a Shure C608 Cardioid for my stuff, and it's a good microphone for my indoor stuff and as a "narrator" mic. I haven't shot much outdoors yet so I can't comment on that, but the Shure was good value for the money (60 dollars)
 
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You always record the dialog live on the set. The boomed mic is connected to the audio recording device, whether it's the camera or an external mixer/recorder. If you use a separate recording device you should use a slate that shows scene/take/etc. and keep detailed audio and video logs. In more advanced set ups the video camera and audio recorder would run off of a time code generator (common clock) to achieve sync.

If, despite all efforts to capture solid production sound, the production dialog is unusable you then have the talent re-record the dialog in a studio. The process is known as ADR (Automated Dialog Replacement) or looping and the talent is supposed to match the on-set performance. ADR should be avoided as much as possible, it usually falls far short of the passion/intensity of the original performance, and many actors have great difficulty with the process.
 
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Just a couple of little additional comments from what has been mentioned above:
a) Polar pattern Bi-directional is also often called a "figure of eight" polar pattern
b) The Octava mk-012 mentioned above is a useful mic in that it has a number of screw-on capsules with different polar patterns, so if you want to swap from a cardiod pattern to an omni pattern you just change the capsule. They also have a pad attachment that screws on or off. If you are recording something really loud for example, you can add the pad attachment to the mic
c) The Sennheiser MKH416 has long been the standard in shotgun mics. There are others that do the job as well or better these days.
d) Voice over and speaking ( or singing) in a studio is usually ( though not always) done with a Large Diaphram condensor mic. Examples of these would be Neumann U87, Rode NT2A, AKG C414
 
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Alcove...are the mics you mentioned good for outdoor use too? (such as the Oktava mic)Because, now that I know I have to record audio prior to the location, Ill definitely need to do it outside as well! By the way, one thing intrigues me...
If I have to record audio live on set, then what is the need to record other sounds seperately (like the sea, birds, mass of people etc, cars etc.)? What if I pickup some unwanted noise, how am I going to replace it with the one I seperately recorded?
 
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lobar best for outside...hypercardioid best for inside AND when you break your viola and do it well, you say Voilà! That is what I have been taught. And Im grateful of both lessons ;)








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I am wondering the same thing. I am ready to purchase a shotgun mic myself. I'm thinking one with screw-on capsules like rocksure says, may be the way to go. Or would we better off getting seperate mics for indoors and out?
 
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Prob is..the Octava Mk-012 does not have a Shotgun capsule available..it has Cardioid Capsules, Omni Capsules & Hypercardioid Capsules

is what I have found, so for vid use, the Hypercardiod is best used indoors
 
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Wow, where do I begin...

what has the best of both worlds?
Click to expand...

There isn't one. You use a shotgun/lobar outdoors. You use a hypercardioid indoors. If you can afford only one mic you have to decide which of the following problems you want to have; if you use a shotgun indoors your sound will be excessively roomy and echoey; if you use a hypercardioid outdoors you'll pick up excessive background noise and have more wind problems. Expert use will minimize this to a degree, but it takes a long time to acquire such skill; there is nothing like using the correct tool for the job.

Interchangeable capsules usually apply only to cardioid polar patterns. The only mic series I know of that has interchangeable lobar and cardioid capsules is the Sennheiser ME/K6 series; the K6 is the power module, the capsules are the ME66 lobar/shotgun, the ME65 supercardioid, the ME64 cardioid and the ME62 omni; there is no hypercardioid.

Define your budget and I/we can make more specific recommendations from there.

what is the need to record other sounds seperately (like the sea, birds, mass of people etc, cars etc.)
Click to expand...

On a "Hollywood" film there can sometimes be over a thousand tracks of audio. It's all about control; and as a director you should be the ultimate control freak!

What is strange about sounds is that they rarely sound the same to your ears when recorded as they do in the actual "live" situation. What a sound editor/designer/mixer does is to recreate a believable sonic reality from scratch. Beyond that it is a very valuable storytelling tool; the use of carefully created/selected sounds can greatly enhance the story and the characters. And when you finally mix every single sound gets it's own sonic treatment - EQ, volume, reverb and effects - to create the maximum emotional impact on the audience.

You may want to check out my blog:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

And then wander through FilmSound.org for a while, especially the essays by Randy Thom.
 
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Thanks, AA. I think I'll start with a shotgun. My budget is around $500 for a mic and an XLR adapter. I'll need that to hook-up to my Canon Vixia, unless there's a better way? I was just checking out juicedlink, but I'm not sure yet.
 
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In my experience I have found the NTG-2 to be way too noisy and have a slightly less-than-optimum resolution. By that, I mean when a recording done with it is boomy, it's really boomy and there isn't much resolution down there on the bottom end - it's just out of control. And then it's sibilant, it's really sibilant and distorts and doesn't react well to conventional EQ and I've had to fix it with some pretty high-end audio gear to make it sound good.
 
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