climbing money ladder

dlevanchuk

dlevanchuk

Reading some material on movie financing.

So, as I understand, new filmmakers typically have to make a film, then make a deal afterwards.

In order to get 20,000,000 for a movie, first I need to make 2,000,000 feature.
To get 2,000,000, make 200,000 feature
To get 200,000, make 20,000 movie
And to get 20,000, filmmakers start off with 2,000 web feature.

And In order to climb the ladder, I have to show a net profit from my last features to obtain larger sums of money..

So, my question is when, hypothetically, I 'll make first $2,000 feature, how would sales generate from it to show profit to potential investors?
Self distribution?
Or feltival recognitions would work as well?
I'm assuming that the first $2000 feature wouldn't really make much of tickets sales, since its typically played only on film festivals.. or would that be enough to gain the profit?
 
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You are on the right track.

The one thing I would note is that there is a viscous cycle that goes both up and down, and starts at about the 2-300k level.

While making a 2 mil film that turns a profit might get you a 20 mil film, it's far less likely that a 2k film will get you a 20k film or a 20k film get you 200. It has been done, but there is a line where you start making something regular people would watch. Below that line, the vaccum pulls down, above that line, the vaccum pulls up.

The toughest part is the very start. You have to talk your way into a budgeted production with no more than an unsaleable college project in most cases. I did it, so can you.

Learn to pitch and negotiate. Learn the psychology of investment. Learn business and ROI. This is solid advice for someone trying to climb the ladder. As an artist, you'll have to deal with money a lot more than you will want to. Just accept that, and you're already moving towards the goal.

Unless you are extremely lucky, your 2k film won't return a profit. There isn't much I can tell you that will change that. If you instead made a TV commercial (30 seconds) for 2k and polished the hell out of it, that could be more effective, because it's saleable, and people can see that. A 90 minute film with your friends as actors is not saleable to anyone except your friends, who will demand to be given the movie for free.
 
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Thank you for your reply! I'm glad to hear an advice from somebody whose been on this path.

"Unless you are extremely lucky, your 2k film won't return a profit."
I ve already accepted that as bitter reality haha oh well, just like every other business, there are high initial costs.



" You have to talk your way into a budgeted product no more than an unsaleable college project in most cases."
This, right there, is weird to me.. if I was a potential investor, I would hesitate on funding somebody who can't show their net profit from prev project. I assume that there are some low budget investors who will accept "my previous project won an award" type of the line for some dollar amount.

What a risky business haha
 
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Nate North said:
The toughest part is the very start. You have to talk your way into a budgeted production with no more than an unsaleable college project in most cases. I did it, so can you.
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Nate, what production are you speaking of and what did it move you up to?

It would be great for the community to see the examples as well.
 
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It's not all bad, other people, (including investors) are just as lured by the movie business as you are. This will cause them to sometimes make questionable decisions such as giving someone unproven money.

Your job at that point is to turn that poor decision into a win win. It's doable.
 
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Kholi said:
Nate, what production are you speaking of and what did it move you up to?

It would be great for the community to see the examples as well.
Click to expand...

Ok, no problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odeed-diCE8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SXo7T6_cvQ


I started shooting this film the first week I got a camera. I sold it as an 88 minute art film, and used it as a resume item to break into the commercial business. By the time that happened, my portfolio also included some minor CGI, and motion graphics work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPL49WpIjl8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqt07VlrCaU

I've come a long way since the days I made this stuff.
 
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Nate North said:
Learn to pitch and negotiate. Learn the psychology of investment. Learn business and ROI. This is solid advice for someone trying to climb the ladder. As an artist, you'll have to deal with money a lot more than you will want to. Just accept that, and you're already moving towards the goal.
Click to expand...

Cool, I'll remember that.

But, how do we know who to pitch, and where do we find them?
 
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Its all about the network, not the interwebs, but your personal connections.

Try this..
Imagine in your mind a character for a story. The character has the resources you need, what is he like? Where does he work? What does he do on his time off? etc..

Now, go put your self in the path of this fictitious person, chance are a real human will show up that pretty much fits your description.

Make a new friend. See where it goes.
 
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Here's a starting point. Would you give even 10 grand to someone you had never made eye contact with?

Go out and talk to people in person. It's harder for them to get away from you mid pitch if you aren't an email. Get some leads and then ask them to do a sit down meeting. Come to those meetings prepared to make a case for your investment that would convince you, if you were the one with the money.

I never make a pitch where it doesn't work out for both parties.

"I'll spend 20 grand of your money, and someone might give me a recognician based prize" is not something where everybody wins, so avoid that template.

Watch "Dragon's Den"
 
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Well, thats one way, but works best if you have a certain skill set that is best practiced in truck stop bathrooms.. :)

But you GO to a dentist (Iv seen your $10K smile so I know you do!) getting to know your dentist is a good place to start.
 
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In my experience, the best way to get to know people who can help you is to be where they go. It's the concept of propinquity. In short, if you want to marry a rich girl, hangout where rich girls hangout. I've also found that the worst possible way to start a conversation is by asking for money. People are more willing to take a chance on someone that they know and are comfortable with. I do tons of favors for people, even if they can't help me directly, because they might know somebody who can. My father calls this practice 'casting crumbs upon the waters'. I hate to say it, but your best examples to study are con men. I'm certainly not saying that you should be trying to bilk widows out of their life savings. I'm suggesting that the particular skill sets employed by con men can help you gain an investor's confidence and loosen their pocketbook. Then all you have to do is establish a history of earning a respectable return on investment and soon people will be asking you to take their money (probably not :lol:).
 
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Lucky Hardwood said:
I hate to say it, but your best examples to study are con men. I'm certainly not saying that you should be trying to bilk widows out of their life savings. I'm suggesting that the particular skill sets employed by con men can help you gain an investor's confidence and loosen their pocketbook. Then all you have to do is establish a history of earning a respectable return on investment and soon people will be asking you to take their money (probably not :lol:).
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Sadly, this is true.

I'm always very honest and direct with people, and the con men around here are running laps around me and laughing all the way to the bank.

A con man named Scott Cox from this area got $100,000 from a friend of mine, by talking really fast, making a bunch of fake promises, and writing down some exiting sounding things on a bar napkin with a borrowed pencil. As soon as the money hit his bank, he was throwing coke parties, and wearing new suits. My friend lost everything.

Years later, I asked the same friend (who was now super rich) to look at a 75 page PDF investment proposal with illustrations and an index of confirmation sources. He just threw it away without looking at it.

This isn't really advice, I'm just complaining that people are so stupid that they throw the good out, and roll out the red carpet for human garbage.

Most of the wealthy people I know are really quite stupid. Not the super high range ones, but small business owners, corporate middlemen, etc. Their attention spans are short, and they feel very self important. For this reason, a con man that can quickly tell them what they want to hear, without the headache of the more complex truth, can often be more successful than someone who is honest and works hard.
 
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Nate, I have another take on this.. its the two sides of the same coin kinda thing..

Gaining lots of wealth requires a willingness to take risk, to act fast and to go with your instincts. The flip side of this is that those same attributes make one inherently conable. There really aren't that many pragmatic folks rocketing up the success ladder, they (we) tend to slow growth and stagnation.
 
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kinglis said:
You don't have to do anything (if you're talented :)), apart from using your talent to make movies...
Click to expand...

You still have to network, for sure. If nobody knows you, nobody cares. Although it's easier to get attention if you can show you've got what it takes, without other people (unless you're rich) you really can't do more than just be creative.
 
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I get what you're saying wheat, I'm just unhappy that thoroughness and personal responsibility are considered a liability. You can't argue that on a national level, attention spans have hit rock bottom.
 
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