cinematography question

C

cutter

hi.

i'm a total film newbie (as most of my background and experience has been in music studio recordings.)

i've started editing music to picture ... and well ... have developed an interest in picture. (editing, shots, cinematography, etc.)

if i wanted to get more into cinematography, are there any types of positions that one could start off with to slowly get more into cinematography? (cinematographer assistant, etc, etc)

also ... can some of you list some of your favorite cinematography moments in film that i could learn about?

and finally ... is film school a waste of money? i took music production at school and didnt have the most pleasant experience.

thanks for all the info.
 
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If all you want to learn is cinematography grab a book: "The Five C's of Cinematography" by Cecil B Demille.. It's dated somewhat, but its a classic.

As for the other questions, that depends on people's opinions more than anything.
 
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cutter said:
is film school a waste of money? i took music production at school and didnt have the most pleasant experience.
Click to expand...

First, learn to use proper punctuation, capitalization, etc. This isn't snobbery. Part of becoming a successful professional is a professional presentation, and at least a semblance of correct grammatical skills is one aspect of having a professional image.

As far as cinematography others will have to answer that; my craft is audio post.

To go to film school, or not to go to film school; that is the question! This has been debated numerous times on this and other forums, and you will get as many answers as there are people on this forum. It comes down to several things - the quality of the school (a large part of which are the instructors), how much you put into it, and if you are someone who thrives in the academic atmosphere.

Personally I don't care for school, I'm more of a "learn by doing" type. I do, however, read lots of books, attend seminars and, whenever I get the chance, observe those who have greater knowledge and experience than I do. I also participate in numerous production sound and audio post specific forums.

But that's just me. You'll have to make the schooling decision on your own.


Welcome to IndieTalk!
 
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Schooling has the potential to teach you a lot, but as Alcove says it really depends on a number of things.

You want something that's really practical, focussed on what you want to do (ie you don't want a practical documentary or television course if you want to do narrative film), quality teachers/lecturers and hopefully choose a course in which the productions are run as they are in the 'real film world' - there's no point going to a school that has no resources and doesn't teach you how to run a production as you potentially won't be learning much more at school with a few people and a DSLR than you would without school and the same people/DSLR.

In terms of starting off, you quite often start as a Camera Intern or Video Split Operator. It depends on the type of productions you start in - some won't have Camera Interns, others won't have VSOs. How quickly you move from there depends on you and the contacts you make. From there, you work your way up to a Clapper/Loader, otherwise known as a 2nd AC, and then to a Focus Puller, or 1st AC. That transition can take 5 years or more, depending on how qiuckly you make contacts, how quickly you can proves yourself and what type of worker yo uare. From there, you eventually work your way into a DP role which again can take quite a while, or not that long at all depending on the type of person you are. You should expect, however, at least a 4-5 year investment in camera assisting if you want to work up that way. I highly recommend it, as it teaches you a hell of a lot, allows you to watch how those more experienced than you work, allows you to grow your network and allows you to work your crew better as a DP because you know how you worked when you were in that position.

Of course there are those who work without going through the assistant process, but I would suggest that they are the exception, rather than the norm.
 
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Learn the 3-point lighting setup (youtube is your friend)... get a camera... start experimenting with lighting setups in different settings.

Find local filmmakers and volunteer on their sets (you may get fed ;) ). I'd recommend you look at their previous work to see if the "pay" (copy, credit and OTJ training) will actually benefit you in the long run.

On a larger indie set, you'll most likely be able to jump in as a grip. This gig will let you help setup lights and get a feel for where which lights go to get specific looks. Listen to the Cinematographer as if you were a lovesick teenager hanging on every syllable. You'll be able to glean alot of detail about what is being setup where and why.

Read This: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=9597
Watch These: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=40298 (the whole series is on youtube now :) )
Learn the physics of light (focus on the inverse square law)
Learn lighting for portrait photography from youtube videos and google searches.

Google alot!
"Never fear the shadows, there's a light nearby." - fortune cookie
 
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Alcove Audio said:
First, learn to use proper punctuation, capitalization, etc. This isn't snobbery. Part of becoming a successful professional is a professional presentation, and at least a semblance of correct grammatical skills is one aspect of having a professional image.

As far as cinematography others will have to answer that; my craft is audio post.

To go to film school, or not to go to film school; that is the question! This has been debated numerous times on this and other forums, and you will get as many answers as there are people on this forum. It comes down to several things - the quality of the school (a large part of which are the instructors), how much you put into it, and if you are someone who thrives in the academic atmosphere.

Personally I don't care for school, I'm more of a "learn by doing" type. I do, however, read lots of books, attend seminars and, whenever I get the chance, observe those who have greater knowledge and experience than I do. I also participate in numerous production sound and audio post specific forums.

But that's just me. You'll have to make the schooling decision on your own.


Welcome to IndieTalk!
Click to expand...

thanks for the insight.

suggesting that i type in lower case on a message board - and that won't lead me to a fruitful career - is comical.
 
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knightly said:
Learn the 3-point lighting setup (youtube is your friend)... get a camera... start experimenting with lighting setups in different settings.

Find local filmmakers and volunteer on their sets (you may get fed ;) ). I'd recommend you look at their previous work to see if the "pay" (copy, credit and OTJ training) will actually benefit you in the long run.

On a larger indie set, you'll most likely be able to jump in as a grip. This gig will let you help setup lights and get a feel for where which lights go to get specific looks. Listen to the Cinematographer as if you were a lovesick teenager hanging on every syllable. You'll be able to glean alot of detail about what is being setup where and why.

Read This: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=9597
Watch These: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=40298 (the whole series is on youtube now :) )
Learn the physics of light (focus on the inverse square law)
Learn lighting for portrait photography from youtube videos and google searches.

Google alot!
"Never fear the shadows, there's a light nearby." - fortune cookie
Click to expand...


great.

thanks again for everyones input.
 
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cutter said:
suggesting that i type in lower case on a message board - and that won't lead me to a fruitful career - is comical.
Click to expand...

That's not what I said. I commented that it is a part of presenting a professional image. Get into the habit. You'll note that everyone who responded uses capital letters and something resembling proper punctuation and grammar. Correct usage of language leads to more concise communication, and a filmmaker is all about communication.

Also keep in mind that, for all that we consider ourselves artists as well as technicians, the entertainment industry is a BUSINESS. Sometimes small things can make a difference when you are competing for contracts or funds. Correct usage of language shows attention to detail, and that is something investors - who are business people looking to make a profit, or at least a tax write off - look for.

You've asked for advice. There are a number of people participating on this forum who are fairly successful, meaning that they can make a living in the very competitive entertainment industry. It's up to you whether or not to take their advice.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Also keep in mind that, for all that we consider ourselves artists as well as technicians, the entertainment industry is a BUSINESS. Sometimes small things can make a difference when you are competing for contracts or funds. Correct usage of language shows attention to detail, and that is something investors - who are business people looking to make a profit, or at least a tax write off - look for.
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Yep - if I'm picking between two 1st ACs I don't know, who both have similar experience but one writes with proper grammar and spelling, the other doesn't, I'm going for the one who can write properly.

Being a 1st AC doesn't necessarily require you to write anything, but if I get a well-worded, professional email with correct spelling and grammar then it tells me you're professional, rather than a film student.

Probably doesn't help that bad English is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
 
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I've talked to one person who went to film school and according to him, it's like being hired as a lawyer. They would rather see you with a few murder cases under your belt, then just a degree from law school and no experiences. But that's just what it seems to be from what I hear.

It's a money thing. It may be better spend on doing your own projects.
 
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