Childhood actor syndrome

[WhiteOpus]

Like the OP, from your viewpoint you don't see yourself as privileged, certainly not in comparison with what you've seen of childhood stars.

I don't think anything I said was accusing others of having privilege while claiming to have none of my own. I am a white male living in America. I am literally oozing from the eyeballs with privilege. The only reason I bring it up is because I try to always be aware of that privilege, and yes, aware of its relativity based on personal experience/perspective.

2. Based on what you've seen/been told of childhood stars rather than on the reality of their long term existence.

Again this is just your perspective AND is based on what you imagine "being at the top" is like, rather than the reality. In reality being at the top means not only struggling every day to move upwards the same as everyone else but also having to deal with the expectation of the masses to be some sort of super human.

This is true, I am in no way capable of understanding the struggles of anyone else; my speculation is a drop in the ocean, but isn't this project mostly opinion-based anyway? How much of the documentary/research is going to involve actual fact-finding?

I am sympathetic to the sentiment because it is true, all pain is relative to a given norm. Just giving a friendly reminder to be mindful of all audiences. Social justice/awareness has been on the rise lately (and with good cause). I'm not sure how willing people would be to hear about the struggles of someone with endless amounts of money when they're struggling to pay rent every month. Again, this could be completely wrong because people have been eating up meaningless documentaries about the lives of Paris Hilton, Miley Cyrus, and Justin Bieber for years. This is NOT to say that I think the project is meaningless, it could be effective if framed in a way that acknowledges why these struggles are relevant to any audience member, poor or rich. Again, just my two cents.

 

[Firm1]

Firm1, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions, most of which appear based on your personal desires/circumstances.G

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you there. I was just trying to raise a question but it seems everyone here is thinking waaaay too much into it. Im just trying to explore the reasons for why many childhood actors or kids who are born into fame and fortune succumb to insanity. The key word there is many, not all. Perhaps we should focus on that question instead of my pre-conceived notions of reality, which are obviously biased as are yours.

And, on a side note, I don't think you quite understand where I work. If you work in the projects, you're definitely not clean, safe, or comfortable. It's literally prison rules. You always have to watch your back. People died in the store I work at and to be honest, I'm surprised I haven't perished. Is it the worst job in the Western World? No, but I'm certainly inclined to say that it's one of the worst....Great fodder for fictional storytelling, though.

Thanks for shedding light on the mistakes I made with this essay. I'll try to brush it up before I publish it.

 

[Firm1]

Nothing to add to that epic post but: bravo! Nails this bizarre thread completely. When I read the first lines of the OP I never would have thought it was actually meant to be taken seriously.

Oh gee, thanks for your constructive criticism. You could have just not commented. Bare in mind that although this is the Internet, there's a person behind those words.

 

[Firm1]

This is true, I am in no way capable of understanding the struggles of anyone else; my speculation is a drop in the ocean, but isn't this project mostly opinion-based anyway? How much of the documentary/research is going to involve actual fact-finding?

Lol, there is no project or documentary. I was merely free-writing one night and thought it was an interesting question to explore. But you know, now that you mention it, it kind of sounds like i'd be a cool documentary assuming you could gain access to the lives of the childhood actors.

 

[maz]

Oh gee, thanks for your constructive criticism.

You're welcome You have a future in comedy writing, if nothing else

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I don't think anything I said was accusing others of having privilege while claiming to have none of my own.

I wasn't having a go at you for not realising that you too are privileged. I was trying to point out that the human condition of deep, destructive dissatisfaction with one's "lot" is not dependent on exactly what one's "lot" actually is. I was also trying to point out that it's easy to look at those whose "lot" appears to be hugely better than one's local average (and one's own) and scratch our heads in amazement, how can they go off the rails when they have everything (fame and fortune)? There are only two possibilities: 1. Fame and fortune causes some physiological change to the human brain which significantly increases the probability of going off the rails, or 2. While fame and fortune solves all of the stresses/problems associated with poverty (or relative poverty), it must also introduce new stresses/problems which are just as (if not more) difficult to cope with as those associated with poverty.

In other words, if one is living in poverty or relative poverty and one suffers from this human condition, it's easy to assume that fame and fortune is "having everything". In reality though, this is obviously not the case!

I'm not sure how willing people would be to hear about the struggles of someone with endless amounts of money when they're struggling to pay rent every month.

That would depend on how it's done. The news and media in general tends to work in stereotypes, extremes and highlights, stereotypes which do not exist or which omit so much fact that they are not true to reality: The director sitting in the director's chair controlling the shoot, the astronaut piloting the space rocket, the rich brat stressing over an endless choice of designer clothes, the average family with 2.4 children, even though there are no families with 2.4 children.

I remember having a beer with an American friend in NY in the early '90s. He was incredulous that I'd just come from a gig in Belfast, not a place he'd ever want to go, due to the danger. This is because the only time Northern Ireland was mentioned in the US press/media during the '80s and '90s was to report an act of terrorism. I pointed out that in 25 years of the troubles about 3,500 people had been killed, not far from the number of people murdered in New York every year. Even though I was statistically more than 10 times safer in Belfast than in NY, I was apparently crazy to visit Belfast but not crazy to visit his home city of NY. The perception of "given norms".

I was just trying to raise a question but it seems everyone here is thinking waaaay too much into it. Im just trying to explore the reasons for why many childhood actors or kids who are born into fame and fortune succumb to insanity.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "explore the reasons". Do you mean find a quick superficial explanation based on inaccurate assumptions or do you mean going deeper? If it's the latter, aren't the two sentences I've quoted contradictory?

I don't think you quite understand where I work. If you work in the projects, you're definitely not clean, safe, or comfortable.

I worked in an environment where about 8 people per day tried to deliberately kill me and another 20 or so per day inadvertently tried to kill me, which was so dirty the bath water was black at the end of every day, so physically uncomfortable that I still suffer almost constant pain 25 years after giving it up and where I still occasionally wake up in a cold sweat from the experience of holding my best friend's head while his brains were leaking out over my hands. The crazy thing is that I quite enjoyed the job for the most part, the reflexes and skill verses the extreme risks were a buzz, although I did eventually come to loathe it. I don't know what it's like to work in a store in the projects but I suspect it's cleaner, safer and more comfortable than the job I did, although again, it's down to perspective.

G

 

[maz]

I worked in an environment where about 8 people per day tried to deliberately kill me and another 20 or so per day inadvertently tried to kill me, which was so dirty the bath water was black at the end of every day, so physically uncomfortable that I still suffer almost constant pain 25 years after giving it up and where I still occasionally wake up in a cold sweat from the experience of holding my best friend's head while his brains were leaking out over my hands. The crazy thing is that I quite enjoyed the job for the most part, the reflexes and skill verses the extreme risks were a buzz, although I did eventually come to loathe it. I don't know what it's like to work in a store in the projects but I suspect it's cleaner, safer and more comfortable than the job I did, although again, it's down to perspective.

G

So you're ex-military, right?

 

[AudioPostExpert]

So you're ex-military, right?

No. The job I'm referring to is that of dispatch rider (motorcycle courier), which I did in the mid-late '80s in London after leaving music conservatoire.

G

 

[WhiteOpus]

I worked in an environment where about 8 people per day tried to deliberately kill me and another 20 or so per day inadvertently tried to kill me, which was so dirty the bath water was black at the end of every day, so physically uncomfortable that I still suffer almost constant pain 25 years after giving it up and where I still occasionally wake up in a cold sweat from the experience of holding my best friend's head while his brains were leaking out over my hands. The crazy thing is that I quite enjoyed the job for the most part, the reflexes and skill verses the extreme risks were a buzz, although I did eventually come to loathe it. I don't know what it's like to work in a store in the projects but I suspect it's cleaner, safer and more comfortable than the job I did, although again, it's down to perspective.

G

I'm thinking that this is getting away from the original point of the topic now. Comparing shaft sizes isn't gonna do anybody any good. Wasn't your original viewpoint that it IS possible for people to feel the same intensity of negativity/fear, even if their lives and struggles are completely different? I don't know how valid it is for either of you (APE and Firm1) to compare how hard your lives have been. Just saying.

Although wow APE, that does sound like a truly terrible experience.

 

[directorik]

Well, someone's gotta do it. I'm actually in the process of making a documentary to shed light on this pressing issue. If only we knew how much they struggled...

Lol, there is no project or documentary.

Very nice. So you punked me. Congratulations.

 

[maz]

No. The job I'm referring to is that of dispatch rider (motorcycle courier), which I did in the mid-late '80s in London after leaving music conservatoire.

G

So presumably the intent from those who "deliberately tried to kill you" is only from your perspective rather than that of the drivers/alleged attempted murderers? Still sounds grim though. I don't understand how anyone can ride a bike or motorbike in London.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I'm thinking that this is getting away from the original point of the topic now. Comparing shaft sizes isn't gonna do anybody any good. Wasn't your original viewpoint that it IS possible for people to feel the same intensity of negativity/fear, even if their lives and struggles are completely different? I don't know how valid it is for either of you (APE and Firm1) to compare how hard your lives have been. Although wow APE, that does sound like a truly terrible experience.

I don't think it is getting away from the original point. My point being that even though I had some terrible experiences in a job which I believe was more dangerous, dirty and uncomfortable than the OP's work environment, for much of the time I was considerably happier in that job than the OP is in his. The work environment of child actors and the rich/famous is generally another step or two higher again in security, cleanliness and comfort but as between the OP and I, this difference in dangerous/dirty/uncomfortable does not necessary define the level of stress or dissatisfaction one feels, it's perspective and given norms again. Note also that I said "generally", an actor's job isn't always perfectly clean and comfortable and, there are personal security issues which affect almost all people with fame which are difficult to fully appreciate unless one has actually experienced it.

So presumably the intent from those who "deliberately tried to kill you" is only from your perspective rather than that of the drivers/alleged attempted murderers?

True. However, I think my perspective is more valid than most because my very survival depended on the accuracy of my ability to judge and foresee others' intentions. Being the recipient of Road rage is a frequent occurrence when one is carving through semi-stationary traffic for 10 hours a day and I was deliberately knocked off my bike on many occasions and inadvertently on many more. BTW, the figures I gave were not just my personal experience but an informal consensus opinion between me and a bunch of colleagues.

G

 

[maz]

True. However, I think my perspective is more valid than most because my very survival depended on the accuracy of my ability to judge and foresee others' intentions. Being the recipient of Road rage is a frequent occurrence when one is carving through semi-stationary traffic for 10 hours a day and I was deliberately knocked off my bike on many occasions and inadvertently on many more. BTW, the figures I gave were not just my personal experience but an informal consensus opinion between me and a bunch of colleagues.

G

I don't doubt any of that; my only confusion was over the "deliberately tried to kill you". I think we've established now that that was exaggeration (even if only slight!)

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I think we've established now that that was exaggeration (even if only slight!)

Not quite sure how you arrived at that conclusion? The very fact that I'm here speaking about it is testament to the ability I had to neither over exaggerate nor under exaggerate the intentions of other road users.

G

 

[maz]

Not quite sure how you arrived at that conclusion? The very fact that I'm here speaking about it is testament to the ability I had to neither over exaggerate nor under exaggerate the intentions of other road users.

G

How does that follow? You are not a mind reader, and no matter how negligent or careless a driver might be, that doesn't make them into an attempted murderer (which is what deliberately trying to kill you entails) just because you don't like what they do - hence your statement was an exaggeration, even if (from your perspective) that was how it might have appeared.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

no matter how negligent or careless a driver might be, that doesn't make them into an attempted murderer (which is what deliberately trying to kill you entails) just because you don't like what they do.

I'm more than well aware of this, dare I say; a damn sight more aware of it than you are! These negligent or careless drivers were not part of the "about 8 people per day [who] tried to deliberately kill me", they were part of the "another 20 or so per day [who] inadvertently tried to kill me". Those "about 8 people per day" made eye contact and deliberately aimed their 1.5 ton piece of metal at me, when I avoided they readjusted their aim and tried again. This whole process may have been repeated 3-10 times, carelessness or negligence had nothing whatsoever to do with it, unless you consider them careless or negligent for repeatedly failing to hit me despite their best efforts! Also, someone getting out of their car with a tire iron, running up to you and swinging it as hard as they can, right at your head, I personally wouldn't describe as a "careless driver"!

You are not a mind reader ...

But you are? Based solely on what you imagine, from maybe commuting to work everyday, you are able to read my mind and deduce that I'm over exaggerating. Even though London commuters are more experienced and generally more able than the average UK driver, between ourselves we used the term "commuter" as an insult! Yes, in a certain sense, one does indeed become a mind reader but it takes about 6 months of doing it everyday to develop that skill and then constant practice to maintain it. When I was doing it, the life expectancy of a London dispatch rider was the same as for a heroin addict and nearly 90% of fatalities were in that first 6 months.

Now we are well and truly off topic ... or are we? You are making assumptions, judgements and arriving at erroneous conclusions based on what you suppose it must be like to be a London dispatch rider. Wasn't the OP doing exactly the same with rich/famous child actors?

G

 

[WhiteOpus]

Now we are well and truly off topic ... or are we? You are making assumptions, judgements and arriving at erroneous conclusions based on what you suppose it must be like to be a London dispatch rider. Wasn't the OP doing exactly the same with rich/famous child actors?

G

Don'tcha love it when threads end up going in a big fat circle?

 

[maz]

I'm more than well aware of this, dare I say; a damn sight more aware of it than you are! These negligent or careless drivers were not part of the "about 8 people per day [who] tried to deliberately kill me", they were part of the "another 20 or so per day [who] inadvertently tried to kill me". Those "about 8 people per day" made eye contact and deliberately aimed their 1.5 ton piece of metal at me, when I avoided they readjusted their aim and tried again. This whole process may have been repeated 3-10 times, carelessness or negligence had nothing whatsoever to do with it, unless you consider them careless or negligent for repeatedly failing to hit me despite their best efforts! Also, someone getting out of their car with a tire iron, running up to you and swinging it as hard as they can, right at your head, I personally wouldn't describe as a "careless driver"!



But you are? Based solely on what you imagine, from maybe commuting to work everyday, you are able to read my mind and deduce that I'm over exaggerating. Even though London commuters are more experienced and generally more able than the average UK driver, between ourselves we used the term "commuter" as an insult! Yes, in a certain sense, one does indeed become a mind reader but it takes about 6 months of doing it everyday to develop that skill and then constant practice to maintain it. When I was doing it, the life expectancy of a London dispatch rider was the same as for a heroin addict and nearly 90% of fatalities were in that first 6 months.

Now we are well and truly off topic ... or are we? You are making assumptions, judgements and arriving at erroneous conclusions based on what you suppose it must be like to be a London dispatch rider. Wasn't the OP doing exactly the same with rich/famous child actors?

G

EDIT: I've deleted most of my reply, because it's not worth it. You carry on believing whatever you want.

The stupidest part of it all is that I was agreeing with just about everything you so eloquently said in this thread, and the arguments you so skilfully articulated, other than the utterly batshit insane bit. Oh well, that's the internet

 

[AudioPostExpert]

That's some serious paranoia you've got going there. I know a fair few bikers, including some who have been on life support, they all tell similar tales about the selfishness, negligence and carelessness of other road users but none of them have enough of a persecution complex to claim that these drivers are actively trying to kill them.

Ahh, there we go, "commuters", and not even London commuters at that! I never said there were not a lot of careless drivers out there. In fact I stated the opposite, there were a lot of careless drivers, far more than there were drivers who lost it and had a go. I've not mentioned it, but there were also far more drivers who were not careless and/or were very generous/unselfish. Only a tiny fraction of one percent of drivers deliberately tried to knock me off but when one is interacting with many thousands of drivers every day, that tiny fraction equates to a significant number. It's not "paranoia" if there really are people out there trying to kill you!

But anyway, thanks for proving my point! You've never done the job of London dispatch rider, you don't even know anyone who has and yet you're perfectly happy to publicly state I'm suffering from "serious paranoia", a "persecution complex" and "utterly batshit insane", and this diagnosis is based on what, pure supposition and ignorance? Not unlike the supposition that fame/wealth means one has "everything", no reason for any dissatisfaction and therefore no reason to turn to drugs or other self destructive behaviours.

Completely off topic for sure: Any Americans reading will likely find it difficult to comprehend the context of "London dispatch rider" because lane splitting/filtering is illegal in most US states and therefore relatively uncommon. Not so in the UK and when working not only was I lane splitting/filtering virtually 100% of the time but I was doing so in a way and at a speed which most would find horrifying, in a city which had a much more aggressive driving style in general than any other city/location in the UK. Being paid on the number/distance of deliveries, driving like an utter lunatic was the only way of making a living.

Oh well, that's the internet

It is indeed ... and not just the internet but human nature in general. The world around us is extremely complex and very few have the time or opportunity to gain any sort of real understanding except in a handful of fields. For everything else, we develop a superficial and therefore at least a partially erroneous understanding, because it's based on supposition and inferences extrapolated from the limited range of experiences within our social group/s and the "soundbite" information presented by the news/media. In general, the further from the given norms of our social group/s, the more erroneous our understanding and being a London dispatch rider in the '80s or a famous/wealthy child actor are both quite extreme, relative to the average working/middle class experience.

G

 

[maz]

Ah, that secret elite cabal that is London dispatch riders, and the shadowy group of bloodthirsty killers that hunts them relentlessly. I'm not surprised you ended up on a movie site, as that sounds like a great film. You even have your own 'muggles', who are to be pitied and held in contempt. Was there one supreme enemy whose name your group dare not speak? Gotta love the internet

Incidentally, your claim of equivalence of London riders with the OP's discussion of wealthy/famous child actors was erroneous because, as you so eloquently argued, the OP treated said actors as a special case, removed from the totality of human experience rather than attempting to see the outlying experience of child actors as nothing more than an extreme extension of something we all have in common.

Your claim of special powers and exclusive experiences of human nature (namely that a large portion of us are bloodthirsty monsters) is exactly the opposite - it goes against the general human experience from both sides. It's not even like it takes place in a 'kill-or-be-killed' setting like a theatre of war. Whatever makes you feel special, I suppose, but