can we all agree the problem with indie films is lack ofstory andwriting?

FWIW, in 2009 I produced a feature called Geek Mythology. While it did get distribution, the response from people who viewed the DVD was pretty bad. I knew there were production value and technical issues, but I thought the acting and story were fine. Then one of my distributors put it on their YouTube channel as a free movie. Then the good feedback started coming in. YouTube is a much more forgiving venue especially on a smaller screen. What I learned is that the audience can't see past substandard production values. While you don't need to have studio level production values, there is threshold where you win or lose an audience no matter what the story.
 
I'll lay this to bed right now.

If you honestly think the problem is just story then I challenge you to go watch two films. The psycho remake with vince vaughn. "The lord of the rings" cartoon.

Both of these have fantastic stories and fantastic writing and are absolutely TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE films.

/thread over
 
sfoster said:
I'll lay this to bed right now.

If you honestly think the problem is just story then I challenge you to go watch two films. The psycho remake with vince vaughn. "The lord of the rings" cartoon.

Both of these have fantastic stories and fantastic writing and are absolutely TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE films.

/thread over
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Those are some strange examples and not indie films. Still waiting to hear from someone about some examples of really great creative INDIE films. The weight of thiis site depends on it haha
 
davidevans10 said:
Those are some strange examples and not indie films. Still waiting to hear from someone about some examples of really great creative INDIE films. The weight of thiis site depends on it haha
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My *point* is that you can take a great story and still make a bad film.
I'm speaking about an abstract principle here, the example is very apt.

It doesn't matter if it's indie or not. The fact that it's not indie, and made by professionals and the film is STILL BAD in spite of a great story should actually make this example even more powerful.

Know this -
It's not just about story.
Even a good story can be made into a bad film.
 
sfoster said:
My *point* is that you can take a great story and still make a bad film.
I'm speaking about an abstract principle here, the example is very apt.

It doesn't matter if it's indie or not. The fact that it's not indie, and made by professionals and the film is STILL BAD in spite of a great story should actually make this example even more powerful.

Know this -
It's not just about story.
Even a good story can be made into a bad film.
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well it does because i started the thread about indie films and their problems.
 
davidevans10 said:
and if someone doenst direct [me] to some super great creative lower budget films soon I think all points ever on this site are kinda bs
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There are, not for the first time, some massive holes in your logic!

1. You are talking about your personal definition of "great".
2. Your definition of indie or lower budget is again your personal definition, for example the original Star Wars was a lower budget indie film and one which is often classified as "great".
3. While many members here might hope/aspire to one day make a "great" film, most are under no illusion that the films they are currently making are not great and use this site to share info, learn how to solve individual problems and improve their filmmaking, rather than seriously expecting indietalk to provide all the answers necessary for them to churn out great films.

payperfilm said:
FWIW, in 2009 I produced a feature called Geek Mythology. While it did get distribution, the response from people who viewed the DVD was pretty bad. I knew there were production value and technical issues, but I thought the acting and story were fine. Then one of my distributors put it on their YouTube channel as a free movie. Then the good feedback started coming in. YouTube is a much more forgiving venue especially on a smaller screen. What I learned is that the audience can't see past substandard production values. While you don't need to have studio level production values, there is threshold where you win or lose an audience no matter what the story.
Click to expand...

1. Many people view youtube content on laptop/tablet/smartphone quality playback hardware, which is a great leveller of production values!

2. The vast majority of youtube content is amateur home videos, amateur vlogs and other amateur quality content. Mediocre or serious amateur production values therefore seems in comparison to be pretty good. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

3. DVD is a commercial medium. Consumers are now comparing your film with other commercial film products. Our "land" is now populated with normal, two eyed men and our one eyed man is not king, he's considerably below "average"!

G
 
but at least the characters are fun, and the film plays out and looks like a video-game, which drives you very well from one event to the next. Not all films manage to look or feel like that, though.
 
trueindie said:
If story is so important, as every filmmaker keeps saying, why does Hollywood do remakes? If people were craving the story, why can't they just buy the DVDs of the old movies? If story is so important, why is every superhero movie about somebody wanting to destroy the universe, and some people trying to save it?

The average viewer wants a spectacle and they get it, good story or not. The spectacle is marketed and images are plastered everywhere and the movie makes a billion dollars. But nobody is going to remember one Avengers movie from the next.

Of course, if the story is different AND good, then it's going to last forever. For instance, "Predator" is not your typical alien movie. There aren't a bunch of aliens in flying saucers with bad intentions. It's just an Alien dude on safari, and he's hunting. Now that's a story. For no reason other than you've never heard of such a thing before. And of course it has everything else going for it too. The details are fantastic.

But at the indie level, how good can a story really be anyway. We don't have the budget for a spectacle. So all we can offer is a "feeling." No indie film story is going to make a billion, whatever the story, without marketing. So the only thing one can aim for is trying to make a certain segment of the market feel kinship with the story, and hope they get interested enough to want to watch your film. But that's just the premise. Then you have to write the story. You have to get a team together. You have to get your actors. You have to get some sort of budget together. You have to make sure you have your locations. You have to shoot. You have to edit. You have to make sure your sound is alright. You have to make sure you have a soundtrack. You have to complete everything,... and that is just the beginning. After the "beginning" is over, you now have to make sure it leaves your computer and goes on to the real world. And then without a marketing budget, since all the money has been spent on production, you have to figure out how to get more than 5 people interested in your film, not because your film is a spectacle, not because you have a great story (how great can your story really be? It's highly improbable that the average filmmaker is so creative that they've come up with an amazing story nobody has ever heard of), but because you made them feel something,... anything... at some level, deep enough for them to recommend your film to their friend.

If you can't do that, your film or mine, won't make it very far out of our respective computers,... whatever the story.
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lol
 
Too many remakes have good special effects buy in my mind they lack the originality of the story, in my opinion there needs to be a balance between storyline, special effects but it also comes down to budget and effective marketing. You can make a great film with great effects and story but if you don't have the marketing budget - how do you get the word out to the mass public who are your audience?
 
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