cinematography Can I claim a cinematography credit?

D

dr stilly

My DOP has signed the DOP contract and I am the director, however 80% of all shots and lighting were my decision. He helped assist lighting and shot a lot on B-cam but the 'look' of the film is mine therefore I feel like I should claim credit for it with him. So both of us get Cinematography credit. Can I do this even though he is signed as Director of photography?

Thanks.
 
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Sweetie said:
Well, now it's a legal question as opposed to an opinion question. You'll need to provide the contract/deal memo specifics to determine what you're now asking and we might have an idea of whether you included the correct clauses to do this or included the incorrect wording that limits your actions.
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No one here is qualified to answer legal questions, and if they were they would tell him that they are not willing to provide advice which could be deemed professional legal advice over this particular venue. :)
 
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David.rhsc said:
No one here is qualified to answer legal questions,
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However we are all qualified to suggest what Michael just suggested.
I said the same thing in my first post; if the contract stipulates screen
credit then stilly must follow the contract. If there is no credit clause
in the contract then he is free to add his name to the credit card.
 
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directorik said:
However we are all qualified to suggest what Michael just suggested.
I said the same thing in my first post; if the contract stipulates screen
credit then stilly must follow the contract. If there is no credit clause
in the contract then he is free to add his name to the credit card.
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True enough, given a simple enough contract. I should have been more specific - no one qualified to give legal advice is going to give much of an answer as there are rules about that sort of thing, and liability is best avoided when it can be. ;)

Though, personally, you were right the first time. Just because he can doesn't mean he should.
 
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directorik said:
If there is no credit clause in the contract then he is free to add his name to the credit card.
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Most people would assume this, though if there was a reasonable expectation, which seeing this is the industry norm, it may not need to be included in the deal memo/contract it's possible that it is still required.
 
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David.rhsc said:
True enough, given a simple enough contract. I should have been more specific - no one qualified to give legal advice is going to give much of an answer as there are rules about that sort of thing, and liability is best avoided when it can be. ;)
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While most of this is true, I continually suggest people consult an entertainment lawyer, it does help to know some details beforehand. It can significantly reduce the legal bill if it gets that far. Most of the time legal issues are simply worth avoiding by being smart in the first place rather than getting into sticky legal situations. On top of that, I don't think the OP pushing this line of thought isn't that smart professionally speaking.
 
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In the spirit of this being my first film and not wanting my name pasted all over the credits, I will let this slide. After all that has been said I must point out that this DP is a 'genius' in photography, his pictures are simply stunning. However, as I and he found out, Cinematography is a different ball game.

Ps: go easy guys. I'm not trying to steal anything here and I'm not a selfish director. Just very proud of my work and want credit to be given to all those who deserve it including myself.
 
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Thats bullshit.Like .. all of this .

Why are you guys talking about lawyers and stuff like that when this guy is probably making a ultra low budget thing that is going to be seen in Youtube .

Because frankly , if you hire a DP that has absolute no clue what he is doing , well it is your fault . This guy is probably learning . Perhaps he is trying his best to do what you want him to do and as you're showing him the path of learning he is improving his cinematography skills .

Why the heck would you get credit for that?WHo the hell cares if you did most of the stuff yourself ? If you hire him , he is the DP , over.

When I first started out I was with much more experienced actor who basically told me a lot of stuff and told me how should I direct certain stuff.

Maybe he should've been credited for director as well ?

Heck no.

Finish your film and continue on .

You are talking like your film will get theatrical releases all over the world and will go to Sundance when probably it will just end up on Youtube like most of our films .

Don't act like a big shot with some lawyers and whatnot and next time don't hire people you don't need trying to take over their duties .
 
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NickysFX said:
Thats bullshit.Like .. all of this .


You are talking like your film will get theatrical releases all over the world and will go to Sundance when probably it will just end up on Youtube like most of our films .
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Actually it has two distribution deals and is set for a limited theatrical release. The trailer will be on youtube though.
 
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NickysFX said:
Thats bullshit.Like .. all of this .

Why are you guys talking about lawyers and stuff like that
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Because he asked. Here at indietalk we like to answer questions
and discuss these topics. It's not "bullshit" to ask and it's not
"bullshit" for anyone to answer. It is YOU are making an assumption.
Several of us answered a legit question. All of this is not "bullshit".
 
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Sweetie said:
All generalizations are false eh?
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YMMV:

But many years ago I worked for a publishing company at which all of the editors and authors were lawyers of one kind or another. They were quite particular about the subject of "legal advice" in both their publications and personal interactions (believe me, I tried on numerous occasions to get as much info I could while I was there about all sorts of legal topics) as has been my experience with most lawyers that I've known - there's a point where they stop answering because it starts bordering on "professional legal advice."

Sort of like having a PE sign off on your mechanical drawings - they are taking responsibility saying that those drawings are legit. Lots of professions are like this; it's not so much a generalization as it a fairly common professional practice.

As much fun as it is to post pithy platitudes on the internet, some generalizations are actually safe to make. ;)

The point is that asking "legal questions" about a contract no one has seen on an internet forum dedicated to indie film making isn't going to net much beyond common sense answers.
 
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directorik said:
Because he asked. Here at indietalk we like to answer questions
and discuss these topics. It's not "bullshit" to ask and it's not
"bullshit" for anyone to answer. It is YOU are making an assumption.
Several of us answered a legit question. All of this is not "bullshit".
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No , it might be not .

But the thing he wants to do is completely selfish and amateur ,so it's bullshit to even start talking about it .

When you hire someone , you don't take credits for something just because you took over their duties and didnt looked at your own business .
 
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NickysFX said:
No , it might be not .

But the thing he wants to do is completely selfish and amateur ,so it's bullshit to even start talking about it .

When you hire someone , you don't take credits for something just because you took over their duties and didnt looked at your own business .
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The OP has made it clear that he's not asking for our opinion on what he should do, but what he can do.

That being said, can I address the elephant in the room -- dr stilly, have you considered just talking to the guy? All of this legal talk could end up being a moot point.
 
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In the contract it obviously states that he will be presented with the credit but nothing about him being sole credit. I though that if I were to take credit that maybe I'd need to sign a DOP release or something too. Anyways, it is all moot, as I stated, I'm leaving the credit as is.
 
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dr stilly said:
My DOP has signed the DOP contract and I am the director, however 80% of all shots and lighting were my decision. He helped assist lighting and shot a lot on B-cam but the 'look' of the film is mine therefore I feel like I should claim credit for it with him. So both of us get Cinematography credit. Can I do this even though he is signed as Director of photography?

Thanks.
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As Director you already have "credit" for the look of the film. Most people already realise this regardless of who,s behind the camera. You should give your DOP the credit he deserves. Did you give any input into the sound stage? Do you want a credit for that too? Did you change any aspect of the script? The list goes on and on. If you demand credit for other peoples jobs regardless of how much input you gave, you will soon find yourself isolated! Remember, as Director you have the lions share of credit anyway, don't be selfish!
 
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When I look at the cover of a movie, I usually see the directors and/or producers name in large print on the cover. I have never in my life seen the DP's name on the front. You have credit for creating, and making a film. He is not the one getting noticed, you are. I can name all of the directors of my favorite films. I don't think I can name more than one DP. If I had a director that did that to me, I would never work with him again. I probably wouldn't recommend anyone to work with him either. Why are you lighting and shooting the film anyway? Let him do his job. I said this in an older post, and I will say it again: It is your job to tell him how you want it to look, you don't tell him how to get that look, or do it for him. If you care so much about it, and want to drag in lawyers and legal people, how about you be the DP next time. You have credit for creating the film, you are the creator. What more do you want? Also, if you want to bring in legal people, or go to court, you will probably lose.
 
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Collaborative filmmaking at its best! Proud to have led the vision as director, working closely with my talented DOP who contributed significantly. Advocating for shared cinematography credit to acknowledge our combined efforts.
 
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