Camcorder Recomendations

[seeldoger47]

Hi,

I'm making a couple of short films this semester and am looking for camcorder/general equipment recommendations.

 

[seeldoger47]

Sony FS700R. 4K RAW at 60fps and 2K RAW at 240fps to external recorder and CineAlta workflow.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Sony-NE...rofessional_Video_Cameras&hash=item5af7416342

Way outside of my price range/way more than I need. I want something that is simple and allows me to learn the basics of filming.

 

[Sage Pictures]

i don't think the 4444 is noticeable to the naked eye, but it comes into play during the color correction process since you have more chroma to work with

It is so with bit depth - where 8 bit is enough to appear natural in presentation, but in post 10 bit or higher makes a significant difference (banding). The main theoretical reason for 444 in post is keying greenscreen - but in practice the bayer sensor and olpf density (mtf contrast at 2k) can limit any benefit

I'm not set on anything. I'm not spending money on a set, I don't even know where I'd get an audio recordist, I was going to do post production sound, probably don't need to spend money on props, and I don't have to feed anyone. If I wanted to go the rental route, where could I do that?

Renting is a great way to go about making your first serious movie (access to alexa etc.). If the goal is learning and just getting going in the game, anything you have access to will do. Smartphones like the Samsung Galaxy and IPhone/Ipad have built in hd cams that are not too shabby - just make sure to secure it to a tripod or some sort of stabilization. Production sound (the dialog) is the most challenging thing to get, that why a skilled sound guy with at least decent equipment is best (money invested here tends to disproportionately save money and time in post)

For lights, you want big and soft, try to keep them towards the actors and less towards the background. By big and soft, I mean large surface area - windows are free (shoot next to them), as well as a cloudy sky. If indoors, try bouncing a cheap clamp light or two w/ halogen bulbs into a ceiling corner or upper part of a wall, and just keep it out of the frame

 

[Dreadylocks]

I'm not set on anything. I'm not spending money on a set, I don't even know where I'd get an audio recordist, I was going to do post production sound, probably don't need to spend money on props, and I don't have to feed anyone. If I wanted to go the rental route, where could I do that?

Well, I see you know what you're doing then.


As for where to rent, if you're in the US:
http://www.borrowlenses.com/
I have rented from them before and can vouch that they have good quality equipment and are reliable.

 

[seeldoger47]

It is so with bit depth - where 8 bit is enough to appear natural in presentation, but in post 10 bit or higher makes a significant difference (banding). The main theoretical reason for 444 in post is keying greenscreen - but in practice the bayer sensor and olpf density (mtf contrast at 2k) can limit any benefit



Renting is a great way to go about making your first serious movie (access to alexa etc.). If the goal is learning and just getting going in the game, anything you have access to will do. Smartphones like the Samsung Galaxy and IPhone/Ipad have built in hd cams that are not too shabby - just make sure to secure it to a tripod or some sort of stabilization. Production sound (the dialog) is the most challenging thing to get, that why a skilled sound guy with at least decent equipment is best (money invested here tends to disproportionately save money and time in post)

For lights, you want big and soft, try to keep them towards the actors and less towards the background. By big and soft, I mean large surface area - windows are free (shoot next to them), as well as a cloudy sky. If indoors, try bouncing a cheap clamp light or two w/ halogen bulbs into a ceiling corner or upper part of a wall, and just keep it out of the frame

Most of the shooting was going to take place in a supermarket. Any tips as to how I should go about shooting it?

 

[seeldoger47]

Well, I see you know what you're doing then.


As for where to rent, if you're in the US:
http://www.borrowlenses.com/
I have rented from them before and can vouch that they have good quality equipment and are reliable.

I'm an economics major so its safe to say this is well outside my comfort zone. Thanks, I'll look into the site.

 

[Metrostar]

Most of the shooting was going to take place in a supermarket. Any tips as to how I should go about shooting it?

I shot a scene guerrilla style in K-Mart and it was really noisy. Lots of beeping and other noises you don't think are going to be there before you shoot. Refrigerators/freezers make more noise than think they do! Also, you might want to keep any logo's out of frame. I wish I had used a boom to have the actors louder than the background noise, but I wanted to get in and out quick. It was all a compromise. If you can, getting permission to film there will be much, much better. I'm assuming you do.

 

[Sage Pictures]

Most of the shooting was going to take place in a supermarket. Any tips as to how I should go about shooting it?

Sure. Action plan:

Try to secure permission to shoot so there will be no drama or guerrilla pressures

Go to the store in advance to listen to the sounds all around the place. Will you be able to shoot after hours and have liberties? If so, you can avoid sounds of other people shopping, and unplug anything that makes a sound.

Walk around and try to find the quietest spots, then try to find spots near light sources (you will be using their lights as they are, for authenticity - and the sources in stores are diffused and large overhead). Look for light bars on the sides of cooler case doors, or a ceiling light panel to place the actor under that would allow a backdrop with depth (not framed against wall/shelf)

Correlate these two - the spots that are both quiet and close to a light source with good framing opportunities. Place the actor close to the light source. You can take a friend in advance and preframe all the shots with the cam you will use; this will make the shoot much more pleasant and prevent the unexpected, so you can focus on the acting.

You will want to use a large sensor camera; this will allow you to blur the background to avoid logo complications, and make the shots look cinematic. Shoot at 1/60 shutter speed to sync with the fluorescent lights the store uses (this will avoid rolling sensor band problems galore)

Use a boom pole to get the mic as close as possible to the actor's mouth (just out of the top of the frame). If the background noise will be very low, you should use a hypercardioid (ideally Mkh50 to rent, or an at4053b, audix scx1, or oktava mk012). If there will be a tonne of noise, you can use a good (not bad) shotgun - go with the NTG3 (or rent a CMIT5U or CMIT2U if you can). Its inside, so a simple cheap foam windscreen should do (except for the oktava..) Suspend the mic of your choosing on a Rycote INV7, and run the xlr into a Sound Devices MM-1, and that into a Sony Pcm M10 line-in. That will get you cinema level sound to own on the cheap, or you can run the mic to a rented sound devices recorder, like the 702.

 

[seeldoger47]

I shot a scene guerrilla style in K-Mart and it was really noisy. Lots of beeping and other noises you don't think are going to be there before you shoot. Refrigerators/freezers make more noise than think they do! Also, you might want to keep any logo's out of frame. I wish I had used a boom to have the actors louder than the background noise, but I wanted to get in and out quick. It was all a compromise. If you can, getting permission to film there will be much, much better. I'm assuming you do.

I don't have permission - I was planning on doing the film guerrilla style. There is no dialogue so I can shoot it silently and add in any sounds after. Why do I want to keep logos out of the picture?

 

[Metrostar]

Why do I want to keep logos out of the picture?

Because the owner of the logo might not want to be in your film. You either have to get their permission, or not show them. That said, if you are just making these films for private screenings, then you shouldn't have to worry about logos. For anything public/commercial then it's easier to cover the logo/brand name than to get permission. Example, cover the brand "Ocean-Spray" but you can show the flavor, eg Cran-Grape or whatever.

 

[Sage Pictures]

I don't have permission - I was planning on doing the film guerrilla style. There is no dialogue so I can shoot it silently and add in any sounds after. Why do I want to keep logos out of the picture?

Well that keeps it simple. Its an all adr shoot - make sure to record the sound somehow as a reference to the original performances. Adr will be difficult... one of the most imperfect parts of the process that filmmakers do almost anything to avoid. One plus is that the audio can be technically perfect, with no background sound to contend with, and optimal mic-ing.

The logos are a legal nightmare if you distribute/publish, and an eyesore. So to remove after the fact, there is a lot of post work to be done.

To keep low profile, use should use a high resolving cam, frame a little wider than otherwise, hold as still as possible (maybe little shoulder brace?), and edit in Premiere CC to use 'Warp stabilizer' to smooth your shots to a get a pro look. No walking shots with this method though - keep feet planted while using upper body/knee bend to do motion.

 

[Sage Pictures]

One thought - you could use a Countryman B3 and portable recorder to lav the actor on screen; not nearly as good sound quality as actual mics, but it will save you from Adr and its low profile. (The well placed lav can really pull the voice completely from the background, even more so than a boomed shotgun).

 

[sfoster]

Because the owner of the logo might not want to be in your film. You either have to get their permission, or not show them. That said, if you are just making these films for private screenings, then you shouldn't have to worry about logos. For anything public/commercial then it's easier to cover the logo/brand name than to get permission. Example, cover the brand "Ocean-Spray" but you can show the flavor, eg Cran-Grape or whatever.

I don't think this is true. if you are filming in a grocery store and there is cam bells soup the background, that's perfectly fine to keep it in your film. that is where they belong and where they're supposed to be

it only matters if you're singling a product out.
i'm not a lawyer, but i've read this on the internet. so it must be true

 

[Metrostar]

I've read that this certainly applies when you are filming outside and for example, you can see McDonalds golden arches in the back of a shot, where they are just there in the world and not the focal point of the shot. You could be right about the soup being in it's place and just background. If it was on the internet, I won't argue with you.