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lighting Buying first film lights

sfoster

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How important is the angle of beam spread for a light?
Would softboxes and lanterns take care of all, or do I need to be specific in what i look for in the beam angle of a light?

GVM is having a christmas sale: https://gvmled.myshopify.com/collections/holiday-sale-2022

There this a BOGO deal and I'm considering these 150W daylight LED, two of them for $350.
The beam spread adjusts from "a tight 60 degrees to a wide 120 degrees"

And they have a 300W BI-COLOR LED for $379

Are there any opinions on this GVM brand of lights?

The other birghter lights I was considering were amaran 200D (250W), or a Godox VL300 or the apurture light storm 300x but the light storm is way more expensive.
This christmas sale from GVM seems pretty great, could get five lights (4x150W) for $1,100 and have a lot of options.

There are lantern attachments and softbox grid attachments for these things that you can buy, it seems pretty versatile.

That concludes my questions.

Since 2013 i've never owned a film light - only ever lit stuff using light bulbs and the sun. yikes.
It seems like first impressions are everything. and the look of your film is all people care about in a first impression.
 
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There’s no one answer to that.

How much beam spread depends on how much, or little, that specific head needs to light for its intended purpose.

Hard lights or soft lights? Different tools for different results. Soft lights for key and fill, hard lights for hair/shoulder and some background fill (especially if you want to shoot ‘em through gobos for shadow patterns). You’ll want lights that are daylight-competing if you hope to do anything outdoors during the day. For interiors, though, you can use all sorts of shapes and sizes since you don’t have to match (or beat) the sun. And you’ll want some compact lights to get into tight spaces for adding accents to the set, in addition to the larger lights for keys and fills.

Daylight, tungsten, or bi-color? A lot of bi-color lights lose output at either end of the spectrum, since only half the LEDs are on. Full output is only possible dead-center of the spectrum, where both banks of LEDs are on full. Look for COB fixtures (Chip On Board), as those don’t rely on banks of however many LEDs and can run the full range with little to no loss across the spectrum. And RGBWW have advantages of being able to create all sorts of colors and effects without the need for gels, but at the cost of output, which means you need to get larger panels to make up for that.

Not sure about the GVMs. I’ve heard a few people speak positively of the Godox. They’re all doing the same thing that Aputure is doing with the options you mention. I’m seeing a lot more Aputure showing up on sets these days, though still not on any of the cable network studio shows I’m on. They do show up on some commercial sets and definitely on indies and docs. The only GVMs I’ve encountered have been on a couple of super-low-budget sets, and they were LED panels that just seemed… flimsy.

The options you’ve mentioned are COB design, and they do have the advantage of having all sorts of modifiers available for them, but even with Aputure I don’t find the Fresnel attachment to be as good as I would have hoped. Those lights are great for punching through soft boxes, silks, and book lights, though.

Take a look also at Intellytech. They have similar lighting heads, as well as some fantastic Fresnels and smaller focus/flood heads. I have three of the Fresnels and a three-head kit of their Pocket Cannon heads, and I really like what they do. I also like that they’re based in Denver and actually answer the phone, as well as offer repair and other support. Great people over there.

But here’s the thing: it’s not just lights. It‘s stands, stingers, silks, cutters, floppies, meat axes, ultrabounces, scrims… and don‘t forget the sandbags, because safety first. I see people grabbing just a couple of lights and trying to make them do impossible things. It shows. There’s an art to lighting for film, and it’s not just sticking a light in there. Add light, subtract light, shape light. There are tools required to do these things in addition to the lights.
 
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You’ll want lights that are daylight-competing if you hope to do anything outdoors during the day.

Something like apurture 1200d (1,200W LED) is totally out of my budget, can't spend $3,400 on one light
Unfortunately I don't think daylight-competing will be in my arsenal.
 
This is a great book that explains all about the different types of lighting equipment. Lots of pictures of lighting equipment to go along with the information. It is also full of interviews with established cinematographers and gaffers. There are case studies which include images from the actual movies, discussion on the lighting set up and diagrams showing the lighting set up. You can get used copied on Amazon for around 9 bucks. Check it out!

41QIX+pHx4L._SX403_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
Well, let’s start with that… budget. What’s yours?
about $1500
This is a great book that explains all about the different types of lighting equipment. Lots of pictures of lighting equipment to go along with the information.

That's cool but i'm definitely not gonna go read another book, i've already studied this shit for a decade it's time to STOP reading about it
 
about $1500
Probably not the answer you want to hear, but you may be better off, for the time being, renting on a project-by-project basis. There are two lighting and grip rental houses in the Baltimore area - Serious Grip & Electric and Redstar Pictures - where you can rent lights and a small grip truck. Short of that, your budget is going to be stretched thin.

Thinking along Aputure lines, at the very least I’d look at a couple of 150Ds and some of the smaller 60D heads. But you’ll also need stands, stingers, sandbags, and modifiers. The thing about simple lighting kits is that 2-3 lights can cover an interview, but won’t do you much good for a full narrative scene.

Alternatively, perhaps look at the Intellytech F-165 Light Cannon, and a 3-head kit of the Pocket Cannon daylights. You can get the F-165 in bi-color, and they work very well as they’re COB. The Pocket Cannon is only either tungsten or daylight, so get the daylight and gel with CTO if you need to. The 3-head kit comes with an assortment of helpful modifiers. They also have a softbox available for the F-165. This is a pretty simple kit, again, that can only go so far, but it’s also something you can build on. The F-165 packs a punch, too. Also, you still needs stands, bags, etc. Be advised that the F-165 is a pretty hefty head, about the same size as an ARRI 650, maybe a tiny bit bigger. (There’s also a 3-light kit of their Light Cannon X-100, similar to Aputure’s 120d, for about $1800.) Check ‘em out at intellytechusa.com.
 
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The thing about simple lighting kits is that 2-3 lights can cover an interview, but won’t do you much good for a full narrative scene.

Alternatively, perhaps look at the Intellytech F-165 Light Cannon, and a 3-head kit of the Pocket Cannon daylights. You can get the F-165 in bi-color, and they work very well as they’re COB. The Pocket Cannon is only either tungsten or daylight, so get the daylight and gel with CTO if you need to. The 3-head kit comes with an assortment of helpful modifiers. They also have a softbox available for the F-165. This is a pretty simple kit, again, that can only go so far, but it’s also something you can build on. The F-165 packs a punch, too. Also, you still needs stands, bags, etc. Be advised that the F-165 is a pretty hefty head, about the same size as an ARRI 650, maybe a tiny bit bigger. (There’s also a 3-light kit of their Light Cannon X-100, similar to Aputure’s 120d, for about $1800.)

Okay..

I came in here leaning toward buying four 150W leds for $700 and you counter with a suggestion to buy a SINGLE 165W LED for $700 instead.
I really don't think that blowing most of my budget on one 165w led is a smart idea, am I missing something here??
You'd rather have one light than 4 lights?

What makes you think that this light cannon is so dramatically better than the GVM lights?
Bi-color is nice sure but I can just put a gel up - I'm low budget!!

For the record, I have stands, I have modifiers, I have sandbags, I have an entire BOLT of duvetyne cloth, i have reflectors
 
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Okay..

I came in here leaning toward buying four 150W leds for $700 and you counter with a suggestion to buy a SINGLE 165W LED for $700 instead.

Geez… you asked for advice and opinions. Take it or leave it.

What makes you think that this light cannon is so dramatically better than the GVM lights?
Bi-color is nice sure but I can just put a gel up - I'm low budget!!

What makes me think that? Experience. 300W, 165W, 150W… that’s just power draw. What matters is output, or what it actually does with that power draw. The tricky thing about LEDs is that wattage doesn’t mean a damn thing except for calculating your circuit load. The Light Cannon’s output is close to a 1500W tungsten equivalent. It puts out. I’ve used it in many different situations. Recently, we shot an interview in a bar and I just had the one Fresnel shooting through a 6x6 grid cloth as a key. Everything else was natural light coming in from the front door/windows. And at that, I had the power dropped down on the Fresnel… I think we rant it at about 15%. I’ve also used it as a key, again through a grid cloth, with the Pocket Cannons as hair light and background accents. I especially like the true Fresnel lens, as it helps both focus and even out the light.

One good key can go a long way, and a handful of smaller fixtures can fortify it with fills and accents. Yeah, I’d rather have one powerful primary and a few smaller lights to subsidize. With a budget of ~$1500, that’s what I was suggesting. Buy once, cry once.
 
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What a deal on this C-stand... $230 for two, I'll probably pick up an extra pair to use for a sunlight diffusion panel

Just posting in case anyone is interested

Geez… you asked for advice and opinions. Take it or leave it.



What makes me think that? Experience. 300W, 165W, 150W… that’s just power draw. What matters is output, or what it actually does with that power draw. The tricky thing about LEDs is that wattage doesn’t mean a damn thing except for calculating your circuit load. The Light Cannon’s output is close to a 1500W tungsten equivalent. It puts out. I’ve used it in many different situations. Recently, we shot an interview in a bar and I just had the one Fresnel shooting through a 6x6 grid cloth as a key. Everything else was natural light coming in from the front door/windows. And at that, I had the power dropped down on the Fresnel… I think we rant it at about 15%. I’ve also used it as a key, again through a grid cloth, with the Pocket Cannons as hair light and background accents. I especially like the true Fresnel lens, as it helps both focus and even out the light.

One good key can go a long way, and a handful of smaller fixtures can fortify it with fills and accents. Yeah, I’d rather have one powerful primary and a few smaller lights to subsidize. With a budget of ~$1500, that’s what I was suggesting. Buy once, cry once.
I didn't mean to come off like that, sorry, i was more confused than anything.

Is the light cannon bright enough to use outside in the daylight?
 
hey man i was just suggesting you learn about lights before you buy some. they aint cheap.
I consider $1,100 for 5 film lights to be cheap, but yeah I'd still love to have my question answered from the OP

How important is the angle of beam spread for these lights? will a beam spread of 60-120 bite me in the ass?
 
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Is the light cannon bright enough to use outside in the daylight?
To an extent. You’d definitely be able to key in the shade to help match bright background outside of the shade. It is focusable, which can help when you’re trying to key or fill with sunlight in the back. But even a 1500W tungsten is going to have limited use in that scenario. And for reference, an 800W HMI is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 2K tungsten, and those are about the lowest I’d go for serious daylight-competing lights. TL;DR - yeah, it’s bright and can be of some use, but I wouldn’t expect miracles in daylight.

But here’s something I shot in Miami a few years ago, lit entirely with F-165s and Pocket Cannons (except for the color wash on the background and under the drum kit, for which I grabbed some spare stage LEDs that were laying around). Two F-165s, from left and right, to key. Two pocket cannons for backlight. One F-165 on the roof outside to punch the stained glass. The audience was shot separately (long story) and are also keyed with the two F-165s, backlit with three pocket cannons in the balcony.

 
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I consider $1,100 for 5 film lights to be cheap, but yeah I'd still love to have my question answered from the OP

How important is the angle of beam spread for these lights? will a beam spread of 60-120 bite me in the ass?

$1500 for 4 lights is still, in the big picture of film lighting, cheap.

How would beam spread bite you in the ass? My original answer kind of addressed this. How much do you need any one light to do? That’s where modifiers come in.

Focus to flood will impact angle, but also intensity as the narrower focus puts more of the light into a smaller area. Wider focus spreads the light out, so any one spot will not be getting as much of the light. Beyond that, if it‘s spilling to a spot you don’t want it, you shade that particular spot with barn doors, cutters, whatever you have available to help shape light.

Also, beware cheap C-stands. I’ve tried a lot of them, and they all generally suck. Kupo is terrible. Digital Juice is terrible. I haven’t tried the GVM, but I’m inclined to assume they also suck. I bought an Impact C-stand with turtle base to use as an antenna mast on my mix cart, because the Matthews version was backordered at the time. I ended up replacing it with a Matthews because it was big and heavy and cumbersome. The Matthews is a little more expensive, but it’s narrower and lighter and easier to work with. The off-brands just don’t compare.
 
To an extent. You’d definitely be able to key in the shade to help match bright background outside of the shade. It is focusable, which can help when you’re trying to key or fill with sunlight in the back. But even a 1500W tungsten is going to have limited use in that scenario. And for reference, an 800W HMI is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 2K tungsten, and those are about the lowest I’d go for serious daylight-competing lights. TL;DR - yeah, it’s bright and can be of some use, but I wouldn’t expect miracles in daylight.

But here’s something I shot in Miami a few years ago, lit entirely with F-165s and Pocket Cannons (except for the color wash on the background and under the drum kit, for which I grabbed some spare stage LEDs that were laying around). Two F-165s, from left and right, to key. Two pocket cannons for backlight. One F-165 on the roof outside to punch the stained glass. The audience was shot separately (long story) and are also keyed with the two F-165s, backlit with three pocket cannons in the balcony.

I really appreciate you posting that video, thanks! I watched it.
I cannot find photometrics on the gvm 150W light

photometrics for the light cannon say
15 Degree beam = 21,400 Lux at 1 meter
50 Degree beam = 5,230 Lux at 1 meter

photometerics for the 300W GVM light, no focus, can't find the beam angle
ranges from 67,000-93,000 Lux at 1 meter depending on the CCT, on sale for $380

sounds like a bright fucking light for under $400 lol, also totally unnecessary for any indoor shooting I'd do.

I think if you were using the light canon indoors at 15% and you don't really need it's full power, all this extra output seems kind of irrelevant when discussing indoor cinematography at houses and stuff like that, the locations i typically film at.
 
It's interesting that the biggest difference in the online specs, between the lights you posted and the gvm lights is the beam angle.

the light canon goes from 15-50 and the gvm 150W goes from 60-120!
There's not even any overlap in the numbers. totally different angles.

I'm thinking that you can take a wide beam and modify it with a grid to be narrow.
but can you take a narrow beam and modify it to be wide with a lantern?
 
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I really appreciate you posting that video, thanks! I watched it.
I cannot find photometrics on the gvm 150W light

photometrics for the light cannon say
15 Degree beam = 21,400 Lux at 1 meter
50 Degree beam = 5,230 Lux at 1 meter

photometerics for the 300W GVM light, no focus, can't find the beam angle
ranges from 67,000-93,000 Lux at 1 meter depending on the CCT, on sale for $380

sounds like a bright fucking light for under $400 lol, also totally unnecessary for any indoor shooting I'd do.

I think if you were using the light canon indoors at 15% and you don't really need it's full power, all this extra output seems kind of irrelevant when discussing indoor cinematography at houses and stuff like that, the locations i typically film at.
So the GVM does put out more. I cannot attest to its quality of light, build, etc., as I haven’t had my hands on one. Their smaller LED panels did look and feel cheap.

Take that 15% power comment in context. It was an overcast day, and we were shooting toward the windows with a good bit of indirect light coming in.

That project is still in post or I’d link to it.
 
So the GVM does put out more. I cannot attest to its quality of light, build, etc., as I haven’t had my hands on one. Their smaller LED panels did look and feel cheap.

Take that 15% power comment in context. It was an overcast day, and we were shooting toward the windows with a good bit of indirect light coming in.

That project is still in post or I’d link to it.
Keep in mind that was a comparison of a 165W light to a 300W light, because i couldnt find the specs for the 150W gvm
 
From what I read on reddit, just one dudes random post , the gvm lack all the bells and whistles, but the components are decent.
liek if its on a 20' stand and you want to adjust your light, youre gonna need a ladder lol, but i see the 300W has a remote
 
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Looked up some reviews and found this guy using his outside from a pretty decent distance

The bad thing I've read about the light is that the color temperture you select in the app isn't the IRL color temperature it dials into, so you have to adjust manually for the offset to get the CCT youre after
 
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