Budgeting -- anything I'm leaving out?

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

There was a similar thread on here, a while ago, but I can't find it. Plus, I think the answers to these questions would be dependent on the individual production. Anyway, as implied, I'm putting together a proposed budget. Needless to say, the size of the budget is not how much I want to work with, but how much I think I might actually be able to acquire.

I don't want to, but I feel I have to cut corners, here and there. For example, I don't want anybody on my crew doing double-duty, but I think I'll be forced to have people do multiple jobs. As a specific example, I have a friend who is a professional makeup artist, and I happen to think that she'd make a killer AD, or perhaps associate producer. Also, with my projected budget, I don't think I can justify hiring a script supervisor. Is that crazy?

And that's the main point of this thread. Should you care to look over what I plan to spend money on, if you see anything that you think I'm crazy to leave out, please comment. :)

If it's not listed below, it's not in the budget (either that, or my brain farted, while typing this list). One notable exclusion, some people might comment on -- marketing. The movie I want to make, I don't think would stand any chance in hell of turning a profit, if self-distributed. The goal/plan for this movie is to make that rare indie darling that makes a splash at a big festival and gets picked up for distribution.

Budgeted people and stuff:

STUFF
- liability insurance
- E&O insurance
- 10% of overall budget set aside for incidentals, random unexpected stuff that will come up
- locations
- props
- wardrobes
- craft services
- transportation
- housing, for location shooting
- gear rental

PEOPLE
- Cast
- DP (also camera & gaffer)
- Best Boy / PA
- Sound Designer (same person, pre and post)
- Production Audio / Boom-Op
- ADR Audio Recordist
- Makeup Artist / AD
- Associate Producer / PA
- Composer(s) & Musicians
- Colorist
- After Effects SFX Guru (to be involved from pre)
- Director / Producer / Editor (free of charge :))

If you were putting together a shoestring budget, what would you add to this list?
 
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Your crew is severely small.

Of course you can cut corners and if you have to you have to. But
I notice you have no art department at all and no grips. This will
severely slow you down and overwork people. One makeup artist who
is also the AD will kill you and her. Four actors in one scene, 15
minutes for each actor is one hour at the top of your day that
there is not First making sure everyone and everything is there
and the crew is efficiently getting ready for the first set up.
Then during the day actors need touch ups. Your First has to stop
what she’s doing to do that.

No scripty will really hurt you in the editing and can cause
problems on set. Of course you can make a movie without one.

I could go on. But if this is the crew you can afford, this is the
crew you will need to use. Anything other than a “let’s make a
movie on weekends” shoot needs a minimum of 15 people not
including PA’s - you have five, including PA’s.
 
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Thanks for the input, all!

dlevanchuck -- I did consider festivals. I think I'm comfortable with that coming out of my own pocket.

Vader -- I don't doubt that, one bit. My logic, in choosing to cut that particular position, is that this is a really small movie (Road Trip Movie, tiny cast, etc). Anyway, I'm still not sure if that's smart logic; definitely need to think it through.

Alcove -- Thanks, and yeah, I've considered that. Also, I do still plan to contact you, if-and-when it starts to look like this is actually happening.

Rik -- Thanks for that. It's funny, from my perspective, I get excited about the prospect of having 5 crew members! :lol: Perhaps I'm just blind, to how I could (should) be filming.

Anyway, I asked you this once before, and before beginning this new thread -- I kid you not -- I searched the history of every single thread I've ever started, to find your response. I couldn't find it. I hope this isn't annoying, but would you mind listing your skeleton 15, again?
 
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I think potential investors will want to see a marketing budget drawn up (whether or not marketing will be handled by the distributors).

I also think that doubling up positions is a dangerous game, for as simple a reason as the fact that if someone falls sick or pulls out you're losing two positions rather than one. You might as well map out a proper crew for investors and then, if needs be, double up later. When I've ADed I spend most of the morning trying to hurry the actors through hair and make-up whilst making sure that the crew are actually ready on set, so I'm not sure, for example, how those two positions are compatible.
 
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Also, under your "stuff" catgory... LOTS of hard drive space. For a feature sound (audio post) alone will take two terrabyte drives - one for a work drive and one as a back-up. That is SOP with me and most of my peers.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Also, under your "stuff" catgory... LOTS of hard drive space. For a feature sound (audio post) alone will take two terrabyte drives - one for a work drive and one as a back-up. That is SOP with me and most of my peers.s a
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, good one. Especially since I plan on shooting on Red. Holy crap, that's gonna be a lot of hard drives!
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Ah, yes, good one. Especially since I plan on shooting on Red. Holy crap, that's gonna be a lot of hard drives!
Click to expand...

If you're shooting on RED I'd want a 1st and 2nd AC, and probably a DIT/data wrangler - I think it makes sense to have someone dedicated to logging and backing up footage, especially on a feature. You'll be grateful for it when you get to the edit…
 
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NickClapper said:
If you're shooting on RED then your DIT guys might well provide the hard drives for you. I would imagine (?).
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I think the company could see it's way to part with $300 for (4) 2 TB hard drives. That's got to be the lowest expense I've ever heard associated with a feature film.

Also the colorist can log footage, as they're cataloging takes anyway, and after that it's just drag and drop and a database entry.
 
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Nate North said:
I think the company could see it's way to part with $300 for (4) 2 TB hard drives. That's got to be the lowest expense I've ever heard associated with a feature film.

Also the colorist can log footage, as they're cataloging takes anyway, and after that it's just drag and drop and a database entry.
Click to expand...

Hmm... but we're probably talking more like six hard drives (3 for film, 2 for audio, 1 for BTS) and that sort of expense adds up. All I'm saying is that I can recall a mad scrabble for hard drives across various electronics shops, spending several hundred dollars on them and then having the DIT guy turn up with his own for the job. Definately not the lowest expense I've seen or heard on a feature film. Obviously there are far big expenditures but (as Alcove points out) this is definitely something to factor in whilst putting together the budget.

Also: how does the colourist logging the footage work? Genuinely curious here but is in normal to have the colourist on set anyway?
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Rik -- Thanks for that. It's funny, from my perspective, I get excited about the prospect of having 5 crew members! :lol: Perhaps I'm just blind, to how I could (should) be filming.
Click to expand...
Of course you can do it. You have already shot with fewer people.
It's a matter of spreading out the work which saves time. When
you are paying very little (or paying nothing but points) you
want to save as much time as you can. Turn an 18 day shoot
into a 15 day shoot.

I could go on an on on why you need at least one person handling
each department. Good God, man; you're shooting RED and don't
even have an AC?

Cracker Funk said:
Anyway, I asked you this once before, and before beginning this new thread -- I kid you not -- I searched the history of every single thread I've ever started, to find your response. I couldn't find it. I hope this isn't annoying, but would you mind listing your skeleton 15, again?
Click to expand...
No problem. Ray found a couple - I'll post it here.

DP/operator
1st AC
1st AD
script supervisor
gaffer
dolly grip/key grip
grip/electric
grip/electric
grip/electric
makeup/costumer
set dresser/props
mixer
boom op
craft services/caterer

This is the bare minimum without PA's. And you should have at
least four of them. You're doing a "road" movie - that means a
lot of moving. You are going to need a truck with your equipment
to move with you. Right now you have no one on your crew to
drive that truck or load and unload the very few lights or flags or
reflectors you will be carrying with you. Four of five people who are
dedicated to keeping equipment, vehicles and people movies will
save you hours of time - time you can use to shoot.
 
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NickClapper said:
Hmm... but we're probably talking more like six hard drives (3 for film, 2 for audio, 1 for BTS) and that sort of expense adds up. All I'm saying is that I can recall a mad scrabble for hard drives across various electronics shops, spending several hundred dollars on them and then having the DIT guy turn up with his own for the job. Definitely not the lowest expense I've seen or heard on a feature film. Obviously there are far big expenditures but (as Alcove points out) this is definitely something to factor in whilst putting together the budget.

Also: how does the colorist logging the footage work? Genuinely curious here but is in normal to have the colorist on set anyway?
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1. Hard drives are getting very cheap these days, so that figures in. Whether or not it's the smallest expense is something relative to how much you're spending elsewhere. If your production base alone costs 200 a day, $70 2 TB hard drives are fairly cheap at 6-8/yr.

2. The Red can automatically catalog sessions and takes by folder and sub-folder. The colorist has to re-render each scene anyway, so it makes sense to just save the files in an organized way. You're already doing the bulk of the cataloging work when you watch each clip, and re-save it to a location. I have a feeling I know who is getting assigned to colorist work on this, and that person will definitely be on set in this case.
 
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NickClapper said:
Hmm... but we're probably talking more like six hard drives (3 for film, 2 for audio, 1 for BTS) and that sort of expense adds up. All I'm saying is that I can recall a mad scrabble for hard drives across various electronics shops, spending several hundred dollars on them and then having the DIT guy turn up with his own for the job. Definately not the lowest expense I've seen or heard on a feature film. Obviously there are far big expenditures but (as Alcove points out) this is definitely something to factor in whilst putting together the budget.

Also: how does the colourist logging the footage work? Genuinely curious here but is in normal to have the colourist on set anyway?
Click to expand...

Colorist isn't normal to have anywhere near set. That's what DIT is for, to manage scopes, waves, etc. Colorist comes in pre and post production to talk about and deliver looks to producer and/or directors.

The expense of Hard Drives depends on workflow and ethic.

Shooting RED MX we turned out 3TB of raw R3D 4.5K, so that's 6TB of drive space. That cost me about 300.00~350.00 (will have to check expense folder)

Then it cost me another 200.00 to get two 1TB drives for VFX work and Audio. They're combined, the size is fine.

We did not have a DIT. Couldn't afford it, so I purposely shot out two drives per MX (we had two cameras) and I only had to offload halfway through the day and at night, then duplicate over night.

As far as EPIC goes, this past Thursday and Friday (national commercial) I hired a DIT with a RED ROCKET cart and a lot of other great things. It cost us about 200 per 1TB [G-Drive] with eSata to get the kind of speed we needed for the throughput EPIC spits out.

We acquired about 700GB of footage over two days span, the dailies cost us 200GB (1080 w/1st light Pro Res 422) so we pushed the drives to their end shooting 10:1 5K, 4KHD, 2K, and Over Cranking. The DIT was invaluable for turn around time, as soon as the shoot was over I was able to take near-to-master quality dailies and log, bin, and start my cut.

These were two different shoots, though. This commercial had four to five times the budget of the feature, so I could afford to hire a DIT and his cart for two days. I could also afford to get my camera op/DP an AC, etc so on and so forth so that I could just sit at a monitor and direct.

I pretty much had none of this on the feature.

Those expenses should be calculated, but they should also be something that can be moved away.

Hope that helps.
 
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chilipie said:
If you're shooting on RED I'd want a 1st and 2nd AC, and probably a DIT/data wrangler - I think it makes sense to have someone dedicated to logging and backing up footage, especially on a feature. You'll be grateful for it when you get to the edit…
Click to expand...

Ideally you'd have a Camera Op and 1st, and then a DIT + Cart when shooting anything.

I think a skilled Director, however, can skirt by this if your budget isn't the kind that affords you these luxuries.

That said, yeah, I would rather have ALL of that... working without it is very tough.
 
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