Books on directing for the edit?

[Indiefilming]

Hi everyone,
I was talking to a novice filmmaker (even more novice than myself) yesterday about directing for the edit and how important it is to at least sit in on an edit and get a general understanding of the art, in order to learn how to be a better director. It's such a sobering experience.

I was wondering if there are any books or videos out there that explain how to shoot a scene so that you can cut into it, what angles for coverage of two or more actors, rules about not crossing the axis etc?

Thanks!

 

[harmonica44]

What do you mean 'edit a scene so that you can cut into it'? Aren't editing and cutting the same thing?

 

[Indiefilming]

sorry I meant 'shoot.'

 

[wheatgrinder]

Your typo is more correct.. you do shoot for the edit, otherwise what are you shooting for?

You want to shoot to support editing in the continuity style. When your on the set and things are going crazy like they should, then knowing a few basic rules of shooting for continuity will keep you from doing things that will hurt when its time to edit.

The book "Film Directing Shot by Shot" will take you a long way into this.

There are many online resources..

 

[baoliun]

Books are overrated. You can get the same info online. No book will supplement practise.

Anyways!

Here is the list of the top of my head of things you need to understand.

- 180 rule (very easy to mess up,even some high end productions do that,watch multiply rants about Dark Knight)

- Coverage ( please,please do that! This will prevent sooo many troubles + sometimes bits from coverage after or before the actual take are used in the cut)

- Continuity ( no cigarettes in dialogue scene )

- Screw storyboards,do a prevision ( not completely true,but storyboards are a tool for communication,initial blocking,on set screenplay help. Prevision allows to actually experiment with pace,rhythm,extensive blocking )

- It is better to say cut late rathen than earlier ( digital doesn't cost money)

- If you have only 1 take of something,you are probably in trouble

 

[CraigL]

Books are overrated. You can get the same info online. No book will supplement practise.

I wouldn't say this at all. You can find /some/ good information online, but you will never find someone going into the sort of detail that a good book can. You think a few YouTube videos can provide as much information as The Sound Location Bible, The Visual Story or In The Blink of an Eye? You can practise all you want, but if you're practising crap, it's just going to be better crap.

You can learn an awful amount from books, and save yourself a huge amount of headaches. It will never obviate real practise, but the good ones definitely provide a huge amount of information.

On the internet, you get a lot of people telling you How or When to do something in a flashy 3 minute video, a good book will explain to you the Why.

CraigL

 

[wheatgrinder]

When I was first starting, I lived, breathed, ate, and yes excreted film making. I had film making books under the sink in the bathroom so I could multitask while using the facilities. Learn from any and all sources.

 

[baoliun]

I wouldn't say this at all. You can find /some/ good information online, but you will never find someone going into the sort of detail that a good book can. You think a few YouTube videos can provide as much information as The Sound Location Bible, The Visual Story or In The Blink of an Eye? You can practise all you want, but if you're practising crap, it's just going to be better crap.

You can learn an awful amount from books, and save yourself a huge amount of headaches. It will never obviate real practise, but the good ones definitely provide a huge amount of information.

On the internet, you get a lot of people telling you How or When to do something in a flashy 3 minute video, a good book will explain to you the Why.

CraigL

There is obv info in books which you won't find anywhere else,and I am not saying that books are crap and you shouldn't read them. Read,watch,study,do everything!
All I am saying is that the amount of info in books which you can't find online is very small compared to the price you have to pay.

I have read only 1 book from your example and with all respect to Munch as an editor the book is a dissapointment. Yes,he tells interesting stories and even touches some aspects of editing,but it is soo short and vague ( if you read reviews on amazon that is exactly what people say) I have learnt much more about editing from video seminar of Munch ,which even though you have to pay for,but it is available on youtube for free.

Also I understand your point about youtube 3mins videos and I completely agree with you they are ususally crap. But noone makes you watch them. Watch Hitchock interviews. BAFTA guru. Scorsese. Rodrigues.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Books are good, and the internet is good. I have learned the same amount of filmmaking tips, tricks, history, and know-how from the internet and books. It doesn't matter how you get the information, it matters if you have it.

Also, in Rebel Without a Crew, Rodriguez says that before and when he is shooting, he knows how the film is going to be edited. He knows what shots he will use, and how they will be placed. He thinks from the perspective of an editor. That's how he got El Mariachi shot and edited so quickly.

 

[CraigL]

There is obv info in books which you won't find anywhere else,and I am not saying that books are crap and you shouldn't read them. Read,watch,study,do everything!
All I am saying is that the amount of info in books which you can't find online is very small compared to the price you have to pay.

I have read only 1 book from your example and with all respect to Munch as an editor the book is a dissapointment. Yes,he tells interesting stories and even touches some aspects of editing,but it is soo short and vague ( if you read reviews on amazon that is exactly what people say)
[...]

Well, it sounded like you were saying they were crap, sorry. And I still disagree (but then I do love my books) about the amount of information in them. Perhaps spread out over multiple sites, there's most of it in one form or another one the internet. A good book puts it all together in one cohesive and consistent fashion. Different people learn different ways, I love the books I have and have gotten a lot from them all. The other thing I think I find from the books, is it gives you ideas about what to Google for. Not knowing what you don't know is an awkward position to be in, I find.

And definitely, as you say, use ALL the resources you can find.

About "In The Blink Of An Eye"... my mistake, I actually meant "The Eye Is Quicker". I agree that Murch's book is more of a pep-talk than a real technique book. I always mix those two titles up...

CraigL