Avoid withoutabox.com (WAB) - you must read this thread!

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IndiePaul

Have a look at term 11 of the WAB Terms of Service:

https://www.withoutabox.com/index.php?cmd=register.index

You grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license right to use, copy, reproduce, transmit, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display any information, data, Work, or any other information associated with your Work (collectively the “Submitted Materials”) you submit to us via the Services in any media or format.
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:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

How the hell can then get away with such a clause?

So you upload a screenplay or short/feature to WAB and it grants them "nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license right to use, copy, reproduce, transmit, modify, adapt, publish, translate," etc over YOUR WORK...

I'm stunned...

I was alerted to this thanks to these folks:

http://withoutaboxsucks.com/

Thanks is due to our member Flicker Pictures, who posted the link on this IT thread.
 
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For those of you that aren't in-the-know software patents are an atrocity. Everything under the sun is patented.

Lets say you write a cell phone app, it's free to use. but there's a premium version people can upgrade to.

Guess what, you just violated a software patent.
One example out of thousands. It's very absurd and kills a ton of innovation. Apple is one of the worst companies out there for this, they are constantly suing everyone, it's their attempt to control the market.
 
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I'd be willing to bet we could design a new site that doesn't copy WAB, but improves on every aspect of it and reinvents the way film festivals and filmmakers interact. Even if Amazon comes at us legally, their patent wouldn't hold up because monopolies are illegal.

...Right guys?? haha


Edit: never mind... I just read the patent :(
 
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photon said:
AFAIK you can't patent a web site. You could easily make another festival submission site but the main selling point of WAB is getting your film an IMDB page.
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Thats the selling point for unknown filmmakers, but the festivals themselves are just as fed up with WAB. They would all switch to a better service in a heartbeat, forcing the filmmakers to follow.

Plus, I had no problem getting my first film on Imdb when it was still in production without using WAB. Just have to take the proper steps. And in fact, later on, WAB automatically duplicated my project to imdb and screwed everything up. I had converge the 2 projects through imdb and a lot of information I didn't want listed there got transferred through. Really annoying.
 
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Improvement Patents/New Use Patents are what you guys are looking for. Will is correct that patents are for implementations, not just ideas. WAB didn't patent their website, they patented their engine. Build a better engine that qualifies as improvement or new use.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/improvement-patents-new-use-patents-30250.html

You'd still have to shell out massive legal fees just to make sure the product qualifies and to protect from the inevitable legal battle assuming it were to be granted.
 
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I have a pretty good idea about the kind of site to build for this that I was getting really excited about, but I think it takes a lot of money and connections to make something like that happen.

Shelving the idea for now, but who knows
 
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I've only ever submitted to one or two festivals, and both times I used WithOutABox, hah... But, my question to those of you who submit things more regularly: Does rebelling against the use of WOAB drastically reduce the scope of festivals you can submit your work to?

On an unrelated note, I remember that when I did use WOAB, they seemed to want to charge me for really absurd things, it's not a wallet-friendly service.
 
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Beatlesfan1225 said:
I've only ever submitted to one or two festivals, and both times I used WithOutABox, hah... But, my question to those of you who submit things more regularly: Does rebelling against the use of WOAB drastically reduce the scope of festivals you can submit your work to?

On an unrelated note, I remember that when I did use WOAB, they seemed to want to charge me for really absurd things, it's not a wallet-friendly service.
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I submitted a feature film this year to about 15 of what I would call the best U.S. festivals. Only 2 or 3 gave me the option to submit elsewhere. Withoutabox was required for all others.
 
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sfoster said:
Okay so the clause sucks. Has WAB ever actually done anything unscrupulous with submitted footage ?
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Who knows... But the point is they could...

You grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license right to use, copy, reproduce, transmit, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display any information, data, Work, or any other information associated with your Work (collectively the “Submitted Materials”) you submit to us via the Services in any media or format.
Click to expand...
 
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You grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license right to use, copy, reproduce, transmit, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display any information, data, Work, or any other information associated with your Work (collectively the “Submitted Materials”) you submit to us via the Services in any media or format.​

The thing is, it's greedy. It would be fine if the comical lines were removed. Parts are necessary to be able to display stuff, but holy crap what an IP grab.

Screw them.

Sideways.
 
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Has anyone tried withoutaboxsucks approved list of festivals? I was going to submit to Yosemite FF.

I detest withoutabox. And it's true, they wreck your movie if you upload it to them.
 
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brianluce said:
Has anyone tried withoutaboxsucks approved list of festivals? I was going to submit to Yosemite FF.

I detest withoutabox. And it's true, they wreck your movie if you upload it to them.
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As much as possible I try to submit directly to film festivals - many take direct submissions.

I have not submitted any yet to withoutaboxsucks approved list of festivals.
 
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