Auditioning a death scene

[sfoster]

My primary concern is .. it's a very short script, and it calls for a gut wrenching death scene.

I feel awkward asking people to come in and die in front of me off the bat, but that's really the determining factor for which actor I want to pick. Is it okay to do such a thing? Or should I make it a priority to warm people up first and have them read one of the less dramatic scenes with a costar? or just come in by themselves and lament their death

Second concern.. this script is about someone making a mis-step in the world of the mafia and paying for it with their life. I feel like this has to be a guy, because the audience would be repulsed treating a woman that way. Am I being closed minded ?

 

[photon]

I feel awkward asking people to come in and die in front of me off the bat

Most actors like death scenes.

Audience would be repulsed treating a woman that way. Am I being closed minded ?

Isn't the whole point to make the audience fell something? Bad things are supposed to fell bad? So if it's the bad guys doing it than it's fine.

 

[PhantomScreenwriter]

I would get them to audition for the death scene because if they can't act the scene in an audition how are they going to act in front of the camera on the shooting day? You are testing their acting skills but also their ability to take direction and you need to know that you are choosing the right person for the job

 

[sfoster]

Isn't the whole point to make the audience fell something? Bad things are supposed to fell bad?

No, no, no … if i just wanted them to feel something i would make a movie about someone raping a little kid. But thats f'in disgusting and i would never do it in a million years

I'm trying to tell a story not repulse the audience
violence from a huge mob enforcer vs a woman is certainly not to that degree, but still seems a little messed up. wheres the line drawn exactly.. i guess that's a personal decision. but i am curious about opinions on this violently murdering a woman thing

I would get them to audition for the death scene because if they can't act the scene in an audition how are they going to act in front of the camera on the shooting day? You are testing their acting skills but also their ability to take direction and you need to know that you are choosing the right person for the job

ok so basically have them come in and just fall to the ground spouting a plague on both your houses? (but in my own words?)

 

[PhantomScreenwriter]

I guess it depends on how they die in the script. Without spoiling anything is the death a very violent and graphic death involving mutilation?

 

[sfoster]

I guess it depends on how they die in the script. Without spoiling anything is the death a very violent and graphic death involving mutilation?

I'm leaning towards not showing gore. but i do need a puddle of blood growing around them

Perhaps a shot from behind the mobsters back unsheathing a knife, and then lower the camera as we see the victim's legs lift up into the air and he makes his death rattle. then falls to the ground, saying oh god oh god no no and lamenting their decisions that lead to this point

 

[PhantomScreenwriter]

That's fair enough about not showing gore.

You could also have a shot in between the "behind the back of mobster" and "victim's legs lift up" where you see from the victim's POV of the knife as it slashes at the camera.

 

[baoliun]

No, no, no … if i just wanted them to feel something i would make a movie about someone raping a little kid. But thats f'in disgusting and i would never do it in a million years

"M" treats the topic very poetically.

In order for death to be effective, you must have enough story build up for audience to actually care for the character. A lot of deaths in old movies were done very simplistically (no blood, gore) yet it is the execution of dramatic idea that makes it work.

If you ask actors to "die" as soon as they walk in,they will give you the most cliché performance ever. They must first live a life of a character in order to die.

 

[mlesemann]

As a woman, I don't see anything wrong with them killing a woman, as long as you set it up properly.

 

[photon]

I was talking more about how bad guys should do bad things to show that they are bad. For example in the first act of Star Wars, Vader commits genocide and tortures a woman. What if he had just asked Leia politely about the plans? I wasn't suggesting you make a movie that consists of nothing but scenes of violence against women.

 

[directorik]

I don't understand why you feel awkward asking an actor to act in
front of you right off the bat. That's what actors do – they audition
the needed scene. Is it just dying that makes you feel awkward?
What if the script calls for an actor to cry? Would asking an actor
to cry at an audition make you feel awkward?

I can't wrap my head your feeling that it is somehow “closed minded”
to have a specific gender in mind when creating and then casting a
character. Where does that come from? Do you feel “closed minded”
creating female characters that will be played by a woman?

I must say I am fascinated by your feeling. I wish we could sit for a
couple of hours and explore this.

 

[_Rok_]

Auditioning to be the Director

You should definitely audition them playing the scene you'll be filming (or something similar).

When auditioning actors you'll be watching them, but they'll also be watching you; judging your experience and directing ability. The first impression you give as a Director will inform them about the level of professionalism and craftsmanship they can expect during principle photography. The last thing you want is to find the perfect actor, and have them decline the role for another film/Director.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I feel awkward asking people to come in and die in front of me off the bat

If the actor is in a previous scene have them do that first, then have them die.

 

[sfoster]

I wasn't suggesting you make a movie that consists of nothing but scenes of violence against women.

It's a reeeally short script

The first impression you give as a Director will inform them about the level of professionalism and craftsmanship they can expect during principle photography.

Probably holding auditions at my house. but filming one of the scenes there too so it seems okay by me.

"M" treats the topic very poetically.

If you ask actors to "die" as soon as they walk in,they will give you the most cliché performance ever. They must first live a life of a character in order to die.

A cliche performance under those circumstances is precisely what I fear.
And I agree M was fantastic

If the actor is in a previous scene have them do that first, then have them die.

I don't understand why you feel awkward asking an actor to act in front of you right off the bat. That's what actors do – they audition the needed scene. Is it just dying that makes you feel awkward? What if the script calls for an actor to cry? Would asking an actor
to cry at an audition make you feel awkward?

If I met an actor, said hi how ya doing, okay lets audition. now cry! I feel like I'd be treating them as a machine instead of a human. maybe if they're a good actor they don't need any direction or warm up to start?

And possibly they should be crying during the death scene, depends on the performance given.

there is a bit of dialogue right before the murder, given what some others have said it sounds like a good idea to bring the other actor in and have them say those lines before the death occurs. makes it a lot more work to organize auditions with another actor present though :-/

I can't wrap my head your feeling that it is somehow “closed minded”
to have a specific gender in mind when creating and then casting a
character. Where does that come from? Do you feel “closed minded”
creating female characters that will be played by a woman?

I must say I am fascinated by your feeling. I wish we could sit for a
couple of hours and explore this.

would make for a great therapy session right ?

The film salt was originally written for a man. But they weren't close minded about having angelina play the role. Sometimes the right actor comes along and you have to relax your original concept. But I don't know if I'm okay with that in this circumstance.

The other part of the problem is this.. my friend playing the mob enforcer is a really huge intimidating guy. He was concerned about playing this violent character to begin with because it's a prejudice he has to fight against day-to-day with his appearance. I did finally convince him but having him kill a woman seems worse than what he signed up for. Might take another talk.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Regarding your intimidating friend...

I recommend you keep a light atmosphere on set, and have the actors meet at least once before shooting. That way, there is no tension on set. Ryan Connolly made the decision with his film Tell to have the actors not meet until shooting day so that there was some real tension. I recommend you do the exact opposite.

 

[directorik]

If I met an actor, said hi how ya doing, okay lets audition. now cry! I feel like I'd be treating them as a machine instead of a human.

Okay, but there are many more ways to set up and hold auditions.

So do you feel awkward because you don't know how to audition
actors? Is your lack of experience auditioning actors the problem?

How about this method?

You set up a day when you will audition actors. You hand out sides
and offer to answer any questions the actor may have.

That's a pretty standard way to audition actors. That might help
you feel less awkward asking an actor to act.

Sometimes the right actor comes along and you have to relax your original concept. But I don't know if I'm okay with that in this circumstance.

So you have one example of one director changing the gender in
one movie and you somehow feel that all other directors (including
you) might be closed minded for not doing what that director did
for that specific project. Yep, you might need a very long therapy
session.

I'm glad Terence Young didn't think about being closed minded back
in 1961 (look it up) or Lucas in 1976 or John McTiernan in 1987.

Who do you think will label you as closed minded if you decide to cast
a male in this role?

And by the way....

It's never alright to treat actors like machines. Treat them like animals.

 

[_Rok_]

If I met an actor, said hi how ya doing, okay lets audition. now cry! I feel like I'd be treating them as a machine instead of a human.

You are absolutely correct. If you started an audition/rehearsal/scene like that, an actor will flag you as a newb. As a result, your credibility & trust with them will be lost. If the actor has any level of professional training or experience, they'll likely ignore most of your suggestions in order to protect the performance (and they are right to do so).

If this post worries you, them please read THESE BOOKS. I also took her workshop. Expensive & worth it.

 

[sfoster]

Okay, but there are many more ways to set up and hold auditions.

So do you feel awkward because you don't know how to audition
actors? Is your lack of experience auditioning actors the problem?

How about this method?

You set up a day when you will audition actors. You hand out sides
and offer to answer any questions the actor may have.

That's a pretty standard way to audition actors. That might help
you feel less awkward asking an actor to act.

I'm sure my lack of experience is playing an issue here, yes.
This is only my second short and I didn't audition the first time, just picked friends i thought were right for the part.

As far as the sides.. this script is only about a page. so it's basically a side by itself. Should I just go through the whole thing then? Then I would need all 3 actors present for the audition. It could be done although i'd rather not waste the other actors time if they don't need to be there.

So you have one example of one director changing the gender in
one movie and you somehow feel that all other directors (including
you) might be closed minded for not doing what that director did
for that specific project. Yep, you might need a very long therapy
session.

I'm glad Terence Young didn't think about being closed minded back
in 1961 (look it up) or Lucas in 1976 or John McTiernan in 1987.

Who do you think will label you as closed minded if you decide to cast
a male in this role?

And by the way....

It's never alright to treat actors like machines. Treat them like animals.

I'm not afraid of someone labeling me as closed minded. I simply don't want to be foolish by outright rejecting all applications from females due to the subject matter. But now I feel a little silly after everything we've talked about.

I just read some of the dr. no stuff on wikipedia but I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to

You are absolutely correct. If you started an audition/rehearsal/scene like that, an actor will flag you as a newb. As a result, your credibility & trust with them will be lost. If the actor has any level of professional training or experience, they'll likely ignore most of your suggestions in order to protect the performance (and they are right to do so).

If this post worries you, them please read THESE BOOKS. I also took her workshop. Expensive & worth it.

I've read directing actors and I really enjoyed it. Maybe I'll ask my GF to get me her other book for christmas

 

[directorik]

I just read some of the dr. no stuff on wikipedia but I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to

If Young had worried that he might be considered closed minded in casting
a male as Bond we would not have had Connery or Craig playing the part.
Of if he didn't want to be foolish by outright rejecting women for the role due
to the subject matter we would not have had Connery or Craig playing the
part.

I simply don't want to be foolish by outright rejecting all applications from females due to the subject matter.

Then audition women, too. If being open minded is important to you then
open your auditions to everyone. Cast the person who dies the best regardless
of gender or how you feel or what the part calls for.

Looks like you're out of your comfort zone on many levels with your second
short. That could be a good thing - an excellent learning experience for you
as a director.

 

[Alcove Audio]

It's never alright to treat actors like machines. Treat them like animals.

"I never said all actors are cattle; what I said was all actors should be treated like cattle." - Alfred Hitchcock