Audio/Video Speed

[InsanelyyBored]

During the first day of shooting, our boom operator/sound recorder didn't properly record the sound, so the audio files that should have been recorded that day at the same time as the video are nonexistent. I had the actors re-record their lines the next day, but some lines aren't recorded at the same speed as the video. Should I time-stretch the video to try and make it work? I'm using Adobe Premiere Elements 12. Will PluralEyes fix this problem? I already have the entire video portion of the film edited and having never used PluralEyes before, I don't want it altering the video, causing me to re-edit. I know the ideal solution would be to have the actor re-record his lines at the proper tempo, but I don't believe this is an option. If it can't be fixed, I could always use the on board mic from the camera, but I would prefer not to. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Do you have any reference audio at all from the shoot?

 

[InsanelyyBored]

Do you have any reference audio at all from the shoot?

From the first day, just the on board camera microphone.

 

[Sweetie]

You didn't sync the sound before you did the edit? This would have discovered this issue before you started on the edit in the first place.

 

[InsanelyyBored]

Unfortunately, no. I guess that's the correct way to do it.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I had the actors re-record their lines the next day

These are called dialog wilds. It is much better to have the actors do them the same day as the shoot (you should do this no matter what!!!) but I understand your situation.

Do you have any reference audio at all from the shoot?

From the first day, just the on board camera microphone.

This is your reference track.

some lines aren't recorded at the same speed as the video

How many times did you record the wild lines? Hopefully more than once....

You will probably have to do ADR - which is a long, painful process - especially when you and your talent have little or no experience with the process.

Your first chore will be to edit the dialog wilds in the attempt to make them work. Put the reference dialog on a track, then line up the dialog wilds. You will have to stretch or compress each vowel individually to try to match the reference dialog. If you have the budget you can purchase Vocalign.

http://www.synchroarts.com/index.php?PAGEID=products&ID=vocalign

This can do in a few seconds what would take you a few hours of manual editing. If you can't edit the dialog wilds to line up satisfactorily you will have to do ADR. Vocalign is a must when doing ADR as well, so is not a throw-away piece of software, and Synchro Arts has in the past been relatively inexpensive when it's time to update. I use it all the time, and have even used it to line up new Foley footsteps with production sound footsteps.

 

[InsanelyyBored]

Wow, thanks for the great reply, Alcove Audio. I did record the wild lines a few times, but I believe they are all about the same tempo. The project is my first short film-- shot in under a week and definitely low budget, but I really appreciate the advice. I'll keep it in mind for my future projects.

As for this project, I re-enabled the on board camera mic and with an added "ambient noise track" (stock from the software --"busy road") I think it blends fine. Not the best, but it will work. Thanks for the help.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I'll second what Alcove said and add that if your dialogue wilds are greatly out of time with your reference audio (camera sound) then Vocalign or Plural Eyes will not be able to compensate without seriously damaging or destroying the dialogue wilds, in which case the only other option is ADR. But as with the dialogue wilds, if the ADR isn't recorded reasonably close to the timing of reference audio then you'll have the same problem again.

G

 

[knightly]

Some solutions with what you probably have:
- cut little pieces of the gaps between lines to get the dialog to line up the best you can.
- even cutting between words, but this gets a bit dicey and can drastically change some of the ambient room reflection.
- cut to a reaction shot so we can't see the speaker's mouth… alignment doesn't matter - starting the dialog on a shot of them, then switching to a reaction shot works even better here as the dialog has been linked to the person speaking.
- cutaways rather than reaction shots. closeups of hands doing things, fidgeting, etc.

 

[harmonica44]

When you say the audio is not recorded at the same speed, do you mean the actors did not time correctly in their acting, or do you mean that the audio format you recorded in is a a different speed?

If that's the case, you can also speed up or slow down the audio very slightly, using the slow motion/faster motion feature. Not sure what you call it, but I have it in Premiere Pro, and just know it by clicking the icon. If you slow it down or speed it up just very slighty, it might catch up to the speed of the video, and it won't be enough to notice the actors' voices have been slowed down or sped up.

 

[InsanelyyBored]

The actor didn't time his line correctly.

 

[Alcove Audio]

When you say the audio is not recorded at the same speed, do you mean the actors did not time correctly in their acting, or do you mean that the audio format you recorded in is a a different speed?

If that's the case, you can also speed up or slow down the audio very slightly, using the slow motion/faster motion feature. Not sure what you call it, but I have it in Premiere Pro, and just know it by clicking the icon. If you slow it down or speed it up just very slighty, it might catch up to the speed of the video, and it won't be enough to notice the actors' voices have been slowed down or sped up.

Please stop giving explanations on a topic about which you know nothing.

 

[harmonica44]

I am just going by what a sound designer did on the feature I worked on. I know I don't know about it, but thought I would throw that out there in an effort to help.

 

[AcousticAl]

All the advice given (except from h44) is great. There's one related issue that has not been addressed, though:

During the first day of shooting, our boom operator/sound recorder didn't properly record the sound, so the audio files that should have been recorded that day at the same time as the video are nonexistent.

This never should have happened in the first place.

I'd be lying if I said I had never double-clutched at some point... it's unfortunate, but it happens. That said, it's always really easy to detect. I may have lost a take, but never an entire shoot day, and there are safeguards. I've also done this with a camera, but never with audio. I find it harder to do with a sound recorder.

It comes down to on-set communication, and there's a reason we have a very standard, traditional call sequence before each take. It may have slight variations depending on crew, but it usually goes something like:

Director: "Roll sound."
Sound: "Sound has speed."
Clapper: calls aural slate
Director: "Roll camera."
Camera: "Camera has speed."
Clapper: sticks
Director: "Action."

"Speed" means not just that the sound mixer has hit the red button, but that s/he has also gotten visual confirmation both that the cue light is on (and, if applicable, that the standby light is off) AND that the numbers on the counter are rolling. If the recorder is running free-run TC, then it comes down to confirmation of the standby and record indicators.

Also, I find myself spot-checking recordings throughout the day, which is another great way to make sure everything has been running correctly. I always check the heads of the recordings for slates.

This process should force your boom op/recordist to ensure proper recording. If that isn't done, it's time to find a new boom op/recordist.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I am just going by what a sound designer did on the feature I worked on. I know I don't know about it, but thought I would throw that out there in an effort to help.

That's the whole point; for you it's all hear-say, and you often mishear what you have heard. You also frequently ask the same questions over and over again. Speak/write only from practical, successful first-hand experience. If you notice I never comment on anything technical other than my personal area of expertise - sound-for-picture.

 

[Sweetie]

I am just going by what a sound designer did on the feature I worked on. I know I don't know about it, but thought I would throw that out there in an effort to help.

I'd be really concerned taking post production advice from someone who cannot figure out something as simple as getting a room to perform auditions. While it's different areas of expertise, both take some level of common sense.

 

[InsanelyyBored]

This never should have happened in the first place.

You're right; it shouldn't have happened. While some of the blame is obviously put on me, the director, I really don't know why the recordist didn't realize the sound wasn't being recorded and was only in standby mode with the red light flashing and not solid (Tascam dr-100mkII). Then again the boom operator/sound recordist duo was my father and my friend, who also doubled as an actor, so it's not exactly like I was paying a professional. In the end it really isn't a huge issue; the sound clip is only about a line or two. This whole project, while not completely terrible for my first film, has definitely been a learning experience in many aspects.

 

[harmonica44]

I'd be really concerned taking post production advice from someone who cannot figure out something as simple as getting a room to perform auditions. While it's different areas of expertise, both take some level of common sense.

I will only give advice from my experience then, and not from what other sound designers, etc, tell me.

 

[AcousticAl]

While some of the blame is obviously put on me, the director, I really don't know why the recordist didn't realize the sound wasn't being recorded and was only in standby mode with the red light flashing and not solid (Tascam dr-100mkII).

Easily: for an inexperienced op who is basically being trained on site, standby mode is still passing audio through to the headphones. Further, the DR-100mkII is not exactly the most ergonomic recorder in this application. Unlike a bag recorder where meters and controls are constantly visible simply by looking down, handhelds are clumsy to keep up with and often sit in pouches that leave the meters hard to access.

Unless the op is trained from the get-go to double-check the blinking red light, audio in the headphones can be assumed to mean the device is running. This is where the call sequence, and training of what each call requires, are crucial. As they say, "An ounce of prevention..."

Then again the boom operator/sound recordist duo was my father and my friend, who also doubled as an actor, so it's not exactly like I was paying a professional.

As you said, this is a learning experience. Nothing beats having a trained professional minding your audio, but in a hobbyist environment, taking procedural cues from the pros can help. Speaking of... if you don't have a clapper board, that'll be $30 well spent.

 

[InsanelyyBored]

Easily: for an inexperienced op who is basically being trained on site, standby mode is still passing audio through to the headphones.

That was exactly the source of the confusion. I should have better instructed the op and double-checked to make sure he was actually recording the audio. Now I know for next time.