sound Audio help please! Connecting a Zoom H6 to XLR on camera?

[Ven]

I'm more of a video person but have interest in and have been learning more and more about audio. I've searched Youtube and the like but there only seems to be tutorials on about connecting a Zoom H6 to DSLR/3.5mm port. Is it possible to connect a Zoom H6 to my camera? The Zoom of course has multiple XLR ports and a line-out jack. The camera has 2 XLR connections and headphone jack (and of course a shotgun mic).

I'd like to do this to cut out syncing audio in post, to use the Zoom's gain knob as it's lot easier than the camera's 2 small side dials. I've goofed audio a few times before with crunchy sound and to have the -12db safety track from the Zoom would be great just in case. Can this be done and if so, what things/cables will I need to buy?

 

[indietalk]

@AcousticAl

 

[AcousticAl]

Can it be done? Sure.

Is it going to make things better? Meh…

The only connections that matter here are the available output (3.5mm stereo that doubles as headphone and “line” output), and the camera’s XLR inputs. Because the “line” level output of the H6 is pretty anemic in terms of actual line-level signal, you’ll need to set your camera’s XLR inputs to mic-level (turn the camera’s +48v phantom power OFF!!!). As for cables and such, there are cables that connect a stereo 3.5mm output to dual XLR inputs. There can be impedance mismatches, which may or may not be an issue.

Pro Co IPMB2XM-3 3.5mm TRS Male to Dual XLR Male Cable - 3 foot

Insert/Stereo Breakout Cable, 3.5mm TRS Male to Dual XLR Male - 3 foot Long

www.sweetwater.com

There are some versions out there that feature the impedance conversion. That may or may not be necessary.

Now the other part of the equation: is this really the best solution? I’d argue that you’re not helping your quality, even if you’re saving time in post. The combined line/headphone output of the H6 means that the signal is likely going through a headphone amp. That’s going to color the signal, and not in a good way. Because you’re going into the camera with mic-level in, you’re also adding the camera’s pre-amps to the signal chain and taking on any coloration they add. In short, the audio you record in-camera risks losing quality over what it recorded directly in the H6.

What you will end up with in-camera, is a solid reference track that should make merging files in post a snap. Which NLE are you using? Many (most?) have a built-in feature now that makes this process a snap. It’s even better if you have timecode sync between audio recorder and camera, but you’d need to make sure you were using both a sound recorder that can jam to timecode (the H6 can’t), and a camera that can jam to timecode (which camera do you use?).

The other consideration is how many tracks you’re using. If you’re using 3 or 4 sources, you’ll only be passing a 2-channel mix to the camera. That eliminates any hope of controlling the overall mix in post, so you’ll still need to go back to the files from the H6 to get to all the ISO tracks. If it’s only two sources, then passing them on for in-camera recording doesn’t jeopardize this, assuming the two sources are panned L and R so they record separately in-camera.

 

[directorik]

I'd like to do this to cut out syncing audio in post,

I wonder why?

It's such a minor part of post production. Creating more issues during production
seems counter-productive.

 

[Ven]

Excellent info, thank you!! (directorik) I actually have a reasonable amount of experience in video editing, audio syncing is easy. So I figured that if I could skip a step, then why not (?) But (AcousticAl) I hadn't thought much of quality loss, so thank you for that. My main area of experience in audio is mostly with other's work - syncing, dialogue/sound blending/leveling (not mixing).

I'm still very much learning in the area of cabling/inputs/gain levels/db's and all that. I've never plugged into a soundboard, for example (although I am interested in doing so, I don't want to screw up/cut off someone's live audio feed). I've been shooting my own stuff lately such as local events like concerts, harness races, tractor pulls and a stunt show and just whatever catches my interest. So just on-camera mic/stereo so far. It's been fun and I definately want to get better at it. I could just do dual audio, it's probably for the best.

(AcousticAl) I'm thinking the H6 can do mid-side raw if I remember correctly and that Zoom offers a free tool for that. Or maybe it it the H2N i'm thinking of. Anyway, would you recommend recording in that format?

Oh, i've been using a few older cameras depending on situation; Panasonic HMC150, Panasonic AF100, JVC GY-HM150 and Sony RX0 II (could you imagine XLR inputs on that one? hahaha). But my original question was geared towards the JVC camera.

 

[AcousticAl]

I could just do dual audio, it's probably for the best.

Yes.

(AcousticAl) I'm thinking the H6 can do mid-side raw if I remember correctly and that Zoom offers a free tool for that. Or maybe it it the H2N i'm thinking of. Anyway, would you recommend recording in that format?

For what? Mid-Side can be tricky, and it is not at all advisable for dialog.

Dialog is a mono source. It’s panned center in the mix (with a few exceptions in narrative work for actor movements off-camera). It’s also recorded in mono, even if that’s multi-mono with a lav on each person plus a boom overhead. Recording it in stereo is going to be tough in post as the stereo field can prove disorienting between picture cuts, and consolidating to mono can have phasing issues.

There’s also the decision to record matrixed or non-matrixed. Matrixed means that the recorder has created the full stereo image for recording. This means that the recording is pretty much committed and there’s not much else that can be done. Non-matrixed means that it has recorded the microphones individually so that all matrixing is done in post. Non-matrixed is typically the way to go. And sure, you can ditch the side and just use the mid as a mono source, but then you lose what you were trying to capture on the sides. Again, this is not a good choice for dialog.

 

[Ven]

I mean for general live events (concerts, stage plays. etc. not movie work). I was thinking it couldn't hurt to have a wide stereo xy or ms field in addition to shotgun directional audio and doing a light mix with the two tracks.

Edit: Thank you on the tip about matrixing.

 

[AcousticAl]

I mean for general live events (concerts, stage plays. etc. not movie work). I was thinking it couldn't hurt to have a wide stereo xy or ms field in addition to shotgun directional audio and doing a light mix with the two tracks.

Yes, a stereo array can definitely open up the room, and even fill in some holes in the mix depending on what your other sources are.

For instance, recording a concert with a feed from the console can be really dicey. If the FOH engineer has the time and is willing to help, it may be possible to get a custom AUX mix, but it’s more likely that you’ll end up with just a feed from the main house mix. The problem with the house mix is that it’s going to be really heavy on vocals and acoustic instruments, but will be lacking in most other things. Any source (bass, electric, keys) that is amplified on stage, or that is loud on its own (drums), won’t need as much push through the mix. So that leaves a house mix that sounds pretty terrible. Blending that with a stereo array of the performance can give you clarity on vocals with everything else feeling nice and live. If you’re working as an official production covering the concert, you’ll have better luck coordinating with FOH for a potential board feed.

Of course, longtime concert recordists (think of all those Grateful Dead bootlegs out there) often rely strictly on a well-placed stereo array to capture the concert.

For conferences and live events like those, you’ll definitely want a feed from the PA system as it will provide all the keynote speakers, panelists, media playback (though you’re better off getting those source files from the presenters to edit in later, copyrights permitting), etc. Again, a stereo array will open up the room so the direct sound isn’t so dry and lifeless.

As for MS, XY, AB, ORTF… there are so many options for stereo arrays, and to be honest, these are largely a matter of personal taste. Some have more issues with condensing to mono than others, which may or may not be a concern.

At this point, I’d be remiss if I didn’t suggest that you’re getting deep into the weeds with sound, and your best bet is always going to be budgeting to hire a sound professional on your team. I know, I know… budget doesn’t always allow for that. But which would you rather, if you can have it: two people doing two jobs, and each doing one very well, or one person doing two jobs and not doing either one at full capacity?

 

[Ven]

Great, thank you! Yes, i'll probably be staying away from any boards myself. I used to do this with others but they've since moved away and i'm just recently getting back into all of this on my own after about 15 years. I want to at least be competent with on-camera audio and find an audio person(s) later on and it's really good to know information even if I don't ever use it, even if just so I can better understand what someone in the audio field is talking about. It's definately better to have a dedicated person to each role.