Thinking about getting a higher quality shotgun mic. I like to record my audio separate from the video so that I can mix it in post, and I would also like a better means of doing so (currently using a laptop with a recording interface). Does anyone have any suggestions from mid to high price range?
Audio Equip.?
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That's what you get with low-budget gear. Oh, did you gain-stage properly? That could exacerbate the hiss problem.
Professionals avoid Azden products as if they were syphilitic plague rats. Actually, they like syphilitic plague rats much better than Azden. Ditch it and get an AT879, NTG-1 or, better yet, an NTG-3. However, you will still have some hiss; what do you want out of a $300 unit like the DR-100mkII?
Professionals avoid Azden products as if they were syphilitic plague rats. Actually, they like syphilitic plague rats much better than Azden. Ditch it and get an AT879, NTG-1 or, better yet, an NTG-3. However, you will still have some hiss; what do you want out of a $300 unit like the DR-100mkII?
Yes ... change the laws of physics!
If you were to buy an NTG-3 (and learn how to use it well) you would certainly reduce the hiss you are experiencing currently. You would still have audible hiss though and, the mic improvement would now highlight the weakness (hiss) from the pre-amps in the DR100. So then you would maybe move up to a SD mixer + recorder, which would reduce the hiss further still but highlight the fact that while the NTG-3 is in a completely different class to what you have now, is still relatively a bit of a weak link. So then you will need to spend say $2k on a top class mic to go with the top class mixer and recorder.
Even with hundreds of thousands to build an extremely high quality recording environment, buy the finest quality mics and pre-amps and position the mic perfectly you still can't eliminate hiss, the very best you can achieve is reduce the hiss to inaudible levels. Of course, on location (or even on a sound stage) you never have an extremely high quality recording environment and virtually never can you get the perfect mic positioning. So even with the finest equipment money can buy and a top class professional production sound mixer it's still impossible to eliminate hiss and usually impossible to reduce it to inaudible levels.
You can see from all this, it's a bit of a dog chasing it's tail situation. Audio quality is dependent on the entire audio chain of equipment and is defined by the weakest quality piece of equipment in that chain. Furthermore, the higher the quality of the equipment chain, the more obvious are the weaknesses (lack of skill/experience) in the person operating it!
While the Azden brand has a particularly bad reputation (Alcove covered it well!) and the NTG-3 could provide a substantial improvement, ultimately you are fighting a battle you can't win. Unless you are planning on specialising in being a professional production sound mixer, maybe spending your money on hiring a production sound mixer would be wiser? It would free you up to concentrate more on the other areas of your filming, rather than having to spend more and more time getting the best out of your audio equipment upgrades.
G
Scotty: "I cannae change the laws of physics captain"
Drop the Azden into the cat-box with the rest of the crap and get a real microphone like the AT875, NTG-1, NTG-3, ME-66, MKH-416 or CMIT5U. If you gain-stage properly you will have less hiss.
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Don't knock the little Tascam! It's great once I'd taken your advice about a mixer and started on the sound design route. Also, I bought a half-decent mic from ebay.
However, I had to read about a million of your posts before I figured out how to get quality sound out of it and the whole mixer experience was a revelation!
I've used a DR100 (MkI) in the past and with a lot of work and getting in close enough you can put down some decent audio. If you can manage to get close enough to not go over about 6 on medium gain you should be OK for indie productions.
I am glad to see a bag/sling has finally been released for it at a very decent price. Get it! My main gripe with that machine was using it while booming. At the time I had to make a simple sling for it. You just cannot operate without some kind of sling or specialist bag.
The batteries run low real quick when using phantom so I often used a self powered ME-66 though of course self powered mics often need extra gain which brings us back to the hissy preamps. Though I did find the ME-66 puts out quite a healthy signal.
I have to say I'm a bit confused by your motives to get a separate recorder. A stereo recorder will give you no more channels than the camera and there is no reason why you cannot edit or 'remix' the audio just because it is recorded along with the video stream, any edit software will automatically separate it.
Having said that dual system is always better and depending on the cam the tascam will probably give better results.
I am glad to see a bag/sling has finally been released for it at a very decent price. Get it! My main gripe with that machine was using it while booming. At the time I had to make a simple sling for it. You just cannot operate without some kind of sling or specialist bag.
The batteries run low real quick when using phantom so I often used a self powered ME-66 though of course self powered mics often need extra gain which brings us back to the hissy preamps. Though I did find the ME-66 puts out quite a healthy signal.
I have to say I'm a bit confused by your motives to get a separate recorder. A stereo recorder will give you no more channels than the camera and there is no reason why you cannot edit or 'remix' the audio just because it is recorded along with the video stream, any edit software will automatically separate it.
Having said that dual system is always better and depending on the cam the tascam will probably give better results.
It's a very nice mic and has been a standard for many years, but, to me, it sounds a little brittle when recorded on digital recorders.
Always remember that mics that get their phantom power from a battery (NTG-2, AT897) have lower output levels. I've commented on this frequently...
Yes, you can, but the circuitry that allows a battery to power the internal phantom power attenuates the output level, regardless of whether the phantom power is internal or external.
I used to regularly use an ME66, quite a handy and decent mic. I also own a 416 so can comment a little on how the two compare. The 416 is immediately obvious as much smoother sounding and detailed but the ME66 is still decent enough for ENG or indie shorts. With some work in post you may be able to smoothen it somewhat. I find the pickup a likkle wider than the 416 so it is a touch more forgiving for the boom op though I have yet to compare off axis sound. For me what makes the 416 stand out as a pro tool is it's RF rejection. I once switched to the ME66 to take advantage of the slightly wider pick up but picked up awful buzzing from light dimmers, back to the 416 and all was fine. If you work on lower budget productions you will come across lower budget lighting like redheads on cheap dimmers. These are so bad you can actually hear a buzz with your ears, I'd hate to use an ME66 anywhere near one. This buzz, incidentally, can be greatly reduced or eliminated by running the lights on full power so be prepared to use your DoP negotiation tool (your boompole).
To echo what Alcove has mentioned before on occasion decent mics are well built and have changed little over decades, you can easily stretch your budget by buying used.
To echo what Alcove has mentioned before on occasion decent mics are well built and have changed little over decades, you can easily stretch your budget by buying used.
Another question, I have the DR-100 MKII, I am getting the ME66/K6. Lets say I were to get the ProMix 3, would the difference in sound/sound quality between that and using just the Dr100 and mic be noticeable? If yes, then my next question would be is it worth the extra 400 something dollars? Is the difference (if there is one) worth the cost?
If you do go with the premix, would you please write a little report? I'm thinking of doing the same and would appreciate knowing the difference the Promix makes.
I've run mics through a couple of big mixers, one of them was a big ol' Soundcraft, and was impressed with the difference but would love to know the difference a portable makes.
Running audio through a mixer does not make your raw audio sound better, it just provides more options and routing/other functionality. One of the options a portable mixer provides is it's own internal mic-pres and these are far better and far quieter than the mic-pres built into cameras and prosumer recorders.
Of course only you can decide that as only you know how much $400 is to you. Bare in mind though that noisy dialogue is going to be far more noticeable on a big powerful cinema sound system (say at a film festival) than it is on a laptop, TV or even on a decent set of studio monitors.
G
The PromMix 3 is a production sound mixer. "All" it will do, if properly used, is make the production sound tracks cleaner (if you are using a low-budget recorder like the DR-100 or H4n) and provide the set with better sound routing possibilities.
Audio post is a completely separate issue.
At the low/no/mini/micro budget level audio post mixing (rerecording) is done "in the box." meaning all of the processing (EQ, comp/lim, 'verbs, etc.) and volume leveling is done entirely with software DAWs and plug-ins. However, you still need nice speakers and a proper monitoring environments.
The tools you use are less important than the skill with which you use them. An AT875 and a DR-100 is definitely enough to capture festival quality material - provided you use them with skill. Audacity and a few plug-ins can give you nice results during audio post - provided you use them with skill. This actually means spending a lot more - a lot more - time on production sound and audio post as you will have to make up for your lack of experience and the deficiencies of the gear you are using. If you can get good, solid sound with budget gear imagine what you could do with mid-priced gear! However, spending money on new equipment may give you a 2.5% increase in sound quality, expending time and energy on learning the proper skills and obtaining the knowledge required to use those tools properly will give you a 50% or more improvement in sound quality.
Audio post is a completely separate issue.
At the low/no/mini/micro budget level audio post mixing (rerecording) is done "in the box." meaning all of the processing (EQ, comp/lim, 'verbs, etc.) and volume leveling is done entirely with software DAWs and plug-ins. However, you still need nice speakers and a proper monitoring environments.
The tools you use are less important than the skill with which you use them. An AT875 and a DR-100 is definitely enough to capture festival quality material - provided you use them with skill. Audacity and a few plug-ins can give you nice results during audio post - provided you use them with skill. This actually means spending a lot more - a lot more - time on production sound and audio post as you will have to make up for your lack of experience and the deficiencies of the gear you are using. If you can get good, solid sound with budget gear imagine what you could do with mid-priced gear! However, spending money on new equipment may give you a 2.5% increase in sound quality, expending time and energy on learning the proper skills and obtaining the knowledge required to use those tools properly will give you a 50% or more improvement in sound quality.