cinematography ASC DP's slumming with Home Depot gear

[brianluce]

Time to call BS on the conventional wisdom that "True pros use only pro gear".
Check Shane Hurlbut's lighting kit. This is the guy who lit TERMINATOR SALVATION.
http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2011/11/05/lighting-basics-going-with-what-is-available/

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

I never recommended flourescent lamps. Halogen is the only way to go at Home Depot, unless you're including practicals in your set or you're going for the bizarre look.

Yeah, I assumed since we're on a filmmaking forum it was obvious...

It was obvious you were not speaking from the experience of using Home Depot lights, so what else could it be?

And yeah, halogen shop lights are pretty freaking ugly on skin

Never had a problem. Perhaps you didn't white balance?

 

[David.rhsc]

Never had a problem. Perhaps you didn't white balance?

There's more to skin tone than "white balancing."

Those halogens, like standard fluorescent bulbs will spike at specific frequencies of light. You can white-card balance to them all you like, but it won't change the fact that they are an uneven spectrum. It still looks funky at any temperature. But like I said, sometimes that's what the shot wants.

 

[brianluce]

One would think.

And really, this is hardly news.

John Alton made and frequently used a small bulb on a stick to get that signature eye-light in close ups on the women in his films.

I disagree. Shane is not talking about augmenting an armada of lighting trucks with a single strategically placed Home Depot drop light, the point he's making is that the high ISO/large sensor DSLR's have opened up new territory wherein you actually can use hardware store lighting for many situations instead of pro lights. He show's us his light kit right?

My lighting package now is pretty much everything you can either purchase from Home Depot or out of a Grainger catalog.

 

[brianluce]

I never recommended flourescent lamps. Halogen is the only way to go at Home Depot, unless you're including practicals in your set or you're going for the bizarre look.



It was obvious you were not speaking from the experience of using Home Depot lights, so what else could it be?



Never had a problem. Perhaps you didn't white balance?

Stop digging!!!!

 

[Cracker Funk]

Time to call BS on the conventional wisdom that "True pros use only pro gear".
Check Shane Hurlbut's lighting kit. This is the guy who lit TERMINATOR SALVATION.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaCqYj-MdWU

Two things:

1. When I go to that youtube link, I get a hilarious video about Korean American girls trying to get Korean guys. These girls are funny, and the video is awesome. But I don't think Shane Hurlbut lit it. Why you edit the link, brianluce?

2. Wasn't it Hurlbut who was on the receiving end of Bale's extreme lashing? Though Bale was out of line, I kinda think Hurlbut had it coming. DP needs to sit the fuck still during the performance. Adjusting a light, mid-performance? Sheeeiiiit! You lucky you still got a job.

Better start practicing with that Home Depot gear.

 

[brianluce]

Two things:

1. When I go to that youtube link, I get a hilarious video about Korean American girls trying to get Korean guys. These girls are funny, and the video is awesome. But I don't think Shane Hurlbut lit it. Why you edit the link, brianluce?

What? You're mistaken, try the link again, it should work fine. I really have no idea what you're talking about. Sheesh. Learn to use your computer guy.

btw, those are Filipino girls.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Whatever. Funny is the new sexy, yeah!!!

 

[chilipie]

And really, this is hardly news.

John Alton made and frequently used a small bulb on a stick to get that signature eye-light in close ups on the women in his films. Roger Deakins is fond of building all sorts of incandescent bulb arrays for various shots. IIRC he lit an interior shot for A Serious Man using a custom build "chandelier" style bulb array hanging from above. And so on. It's the skill and experience that counts. Also, these tools are used *alongside* quality built, reliable, consistent, "professional" gear. Good luck mimicking an array of 18Ks with your Home Depot kit. Basically, pick the tool that's right for the job.

Couldn't agree more! Scrappy bits of DIY lighting kit are some of the most useful things I own - 5' x 3' sheets of polyboard, paper lanterns, £4 Ikea clamp lights - but at the same time, they'll never take the place of the 650W fresnel I snagged on eBay for £30 or beat the ease of use and compactness of the Matthews RoadRags that I borrowed from a friend. I love cheap solutions to what appear to be expensive problems, but if you restrict yourself to just "proper" kit or just DIY gear on a point of principle, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Stop digging!!!!

No worries. I'll never dig into my bank account to spend $3K on pro light gear.

You can white-card balance to them all you like, but it won't change the fact that they are an uneven spectrum.

Uneven spectrum, perhaps technically, but if nobody can tell (viewers, not techies), why would it matter?

It still looks funky at any temperature.

I'm not seeing this "funkyness" you speak of on any of my halogen lit footage, not on skin anyway.

Now, on regular incandescent lamps (in practicals), one can spot the mismatch in the editing suite (informal education setting), but then it wasn't that hard to fix in post.

but if you restrict yourself to just "proper" kit or just DIY gear on a point of principle

How about "point of pocketbook"? The money I don't have top spend on pro gear can go elsewhere in the budget.

 

[chilipie]

Uneven spectrum, perhaps technically, but if nobody can tell (viewers, not techies), why would it matter?

Who said nobody can tell? They wouldn't point out that you were using a non-continous spectrum light source with a green spike, but that doesn't mean they won't notice - subtle cues like sickly green light are used all the time to influence how a scene is perceived. I'm sure most viewers wouldn't notice that a love scene was shot with a 1/4 Black Pro-Mist in front of the lens, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on them.

I'm not seeing this "funkyness" you speak of on any of my halogen lit footage, not on skin anyway.

For what it's worth, I disagree with David (for once!) with regards to halogens - as far as I know they're a continuous light source and I'd have no problem lighting people with them. I'd generally want to avoid lighting faces directly with an open face lamp (like a worklight), but then that's an issue of quality of light rather than colour.

No worries. I'll never dig into my bank account to spend $3K on pro light gear.

How about "point of pocketbook"? The money I don't have top spend on pro gear can go elsewhere in the budget.

Neither have I. Checking eBay regularly for the last two years has yielded me an Ianiro Blonde and a Strand Fresnel (total street price - £600 or so) for £30 a piece, plus other assorted goodies at well under retail price. Plus worklights, china balls and bulbs, lighting stands, gels and assorted grip gear and stingers, I reckon I've spent no more than £300 on lighting kit - and that's over three years or so.

 

[brianluce]

Neither have I. Checking eBay regularly for the last two years has yielded me an Ianiro Blonde and a Strand Fresnel (total street price - £600 or so) for £30 a piece, plus other assorted goodies at well under retail price. Plus worklights, china balls and bulbs, lighting stands, gels and assorted grip gear and stingers, I reckon I've spent no more than £300 on lighting kit - and that's over three years or so.

Fresnels must be the hardest thing to get a great deal on. Just FINDING a used one isn't easy. I've never seen on on our local Craigslists.

 

[PaulGriffith]

Yeah the only "cheap" Fresnels I've seen are the Chinese Arri knockoffs, and I don't really want to go there.

As far as price of pro gear vs hardware store, not every pro fixture is a bank buster. I bought a mess of used lowel omni and tota lights for $65-85 a piece. For $10-20 more than the home depot worklight on a stand, I got a fixture with barndoors (omni) or a gel frame (tota), umbrella holders and a mount for a stand. Some of them even came with stands.

I'm not saying anyone here, but I know a couple of guys who never thought they could afford pro gear because they never actually shipped for it to see how much it costs.

Like Chilipie said, limiting yourself to all pro or all cheap fixtures isn't the smartest thing to do. Using the best tool you can get for the job is. If you can't afford the real deal, that's ok. Slamming the entire film community for using quality fixtures is a little silly.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

To the "less light needed" point, with a DSLR you can light MOST interiors with a 3 light Arri kit and a 1K. It's HARDER to light for DSLR because you have to so carefully control the the exposure range in the shot, but you need less sheer volume of light.

"custom build "chandelier" style bulb array hanging from above."
That was the base lighting my film "The Island". DP had built a 12 fixture rig with switches that allowed you to turn lights off and on in a lot of combinations. it was filled with small tungstens. We rigged it to the ceiling in the middle of the room and then everything else was just corner fill and key lighting. There are things about the lighting in that film I don't like, but that fixture was a good idea.

3 light Arri kit with stands and scrims and barn doors is $75 a day (at all the rental houses in Nashville). Pick up on a Friday, return on a Monday for $75.

 

[knightly]

I would also mention that his comment "starve the cmos of light" is from the frame of reference of someone who is used to lighting a set with 50K+ of light... so a 10K set may be more than some of us would currently use, but much less than he's used to using.

That statement is a matter of perspective. He's not saying don't light a set and would most likely think that much of what we're doing is still a bit dim. Although this is all assumption on my part, I've never met him. Perhaps he'll do a vanity search and come and comment here on his own

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

I was on a History Channel commercial shoot. It was an exterior of a barn, middle of the day. They had three 12K HMI (diffused with huge silks) shooting the front of the barn (remember this is daytime, not a cloud in the sky). Then they had two 12K HMI behind the barn shooting all the way through to provide rim light to the people standing in the loft doorways. So yeah, some "relative" involved in this as well. A grip kit that we would die for (say a 5 ton grip truck) is a "lean and mean" kit to some people.

 

[David.rhsc]

Uneven spectrum, perhaps technically, but if nobody can tell (viewers, not techies), why would it matter?

Because I'm one of those obnoxious guys who thinks the audience deserves the very best - even in things they may not consciously notice. It's something I've elaborated on before, you'll never hear me say "If the audience can't tell, then why does it matter?" It matters. To-ma-to vs. To-Mah-to. That's the beauty of art, no two artists will approach it the same.

Don't misunderstand, I have a crate full of all sorts of practical bulbs - many of which are vintage that I find at garage sales or architectural salvage stores as well as plenty of DIY fixtures (I don't personally own much lighting gear beyond a "bag of tricks") but after a certain point it becomes about aesthetics and style, and I find that low quality halogen bulbs have exaggerated spikes where higher quality bulbs are more smooth. If it fits the aesthetic, then it's great - but if it doesn't, then it's not my style.

@Chili - Yeah, I'm nitpicking, but if you pull up a halogen SPD* graph you'd see a couple of spike points (can't recall exactly where at the moment). Definitely not as pronounced as green spike in standard fluorescent tubes - closer to the very minor green spike found in CFL bulbs that are dialed to a color temp. Not to say that the color spikes are the same color in CFL and cheap halogens, just to say they are of similar intensity.

To my eye (and tests) 5000K CFLs spike green just a little harder than 3200 CFLs - with variance according to build quality. I have some dirt cheap CFLs that spike really hard, and some more expensive ones with a less pronounced spike.



* -- Spectral Power Distribution.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Because I'm one of those obnoxious guys who thinks the audience deserves the very best - even in things they may not consciously notice.

I have a list things that I think audiences deserve the best of, but spiking halogen lights are low on that list.

 

[chilipie]

@Chili - Yeah, I'm nitpicking, but if you pull up a halogen SPD* graph you'd see a couple of spike points (can't recall exactly where at the moment). Definitely not as pronounced as green spike in standard fluorescent tubes - closer to the very minor green spike found in CFL bulbs that are dialed to a color temp. Not to say that the color spikes are the same color in CFL and cheap halogens, just to say they are of similar intensity.

Interesting, thank you, haven't come across that before! I'm off to geek out on SPD graphs…

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

I'm with David in that the difference between 'That shot looks really good, i don't see anything wrong with it" and "That shot is work of art" matters and to try and get there I'll take any help I can get. That includes nice, "correct" color rendition.

I shot a TV commercial this weekend. I spent probably 45 minutes average per setup with a rented et of Arris setting up 7 second shots. Now some of that is my being pretty new at DPing my own stuff. I really had to think about each setup and experiment a little, but this was in a room where with the 5D I could have thrown up 1 softbox and had a decent looking shot. I want better than a decent looking shot, the goal is higher than that.