I know right?! I cracked up when Jodie Foster was gang banged on a pinball machine. I mean American comedy doesn't get much better then The Accused or Deliverance(although this was sarcastic, "squeal piggy!" did get a chuckle but I'm sicker than your average)
Are a lot of comedies really degrading to women?
- Thread starter harmonica44
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I know right?! I cracked up when Jodie Foster was gang banged on a pinball machine. I mean American comedy doesn't get much better then The Accused or Deliverance(although this was sarcastic, "squeal piggy!" did get a chuckle but I'm sicker than your average)
This attitude upsets me. Sure men and women are different, there's no denying it, but I really hate when people say things like this.
There's no one answer as to why there are fewer women in comedy than men, but my perception is that most girls are not told it's something they can do. Most girls are told they can't be 'funny.' It's wrong.
Josh, I don't intend this post to be an ad hominem attack on you. I just really disagree with what Idle was saying there.
Now go read Bossypants by Tina Fey
Not taking it as an attack on me, we're all good! Idle's theory in the book (specifically rooted in vaudeville) goes on to say more or less what you are saying...it's not an inherent thing, but a "social norm" sort of thing. It's been a long time since I read it (and at the end of the day comedy isn't really my thing for the most part), but there's a lot more to it. I'd recommend the book; his deconstruction of humor is interesting and better explained than I could right now!
I've got enough post-feminist in me to know that while men and women are different, that doesn't mean there is anything that is exclusively one or the other. Most people are on a range (I'm not the most guy-ly guy ever, and happy with who I am). Which isn't to say that a woman comedian is more "masculine"; that would be defined by her humor. There IS a difference between masculine and feminine humor, with comedians of either gender doing material on either side. But I think my point does stand; comedies are often degrading towards women because they are written from a mostly masculine sense of humor. I am not, of course, suggesting that is a GOOD thing by any means!
Now go read Bossypants by Tina Fey
I shall! You should read Idle's book too; other than the deconstruction aspect, it is a fun sci-fi adventure. It's no Hitchhiker's Guide, but what is?
I love how careful everyone writes on IT when there is an issue such as this on the proverbial table. No one wants to say anything that might piss another poster off or entice an argument so they cover all there bases lol. Its nice to see people caring about other posters, most of whom they haven't and will never meet.
Dready I don't think women are told they can't. I think as a stereotypically weaker gender women have to be raunchier to make it in comedy. They have to mention the things that most women were ingrained not to mention. Men are empowered by their outspoken and opinionated nature while women are looked at as bitches for theirs(not me personally but I've seen it happen). Its a hypocritical world we live in and this extends to comedy. I don't think its about men being more open to laughing at themselves as it is about people's apprehension AND scrutiny (they demand more FUNNY from a female) when laughing at women. And I wouldn't say audiences are afraid to laugh at women but I would say that they are careful to laugh at the "right" moments. I do think women are wearier though then men when putting themselves on the chopping block of standup or portraying themselves in comedy. Let's face it, women as a whole care more about their image than men as a whole. Sure you have women who don't and the pretty boys who do, but I think they're the minority of their larger wholes.
Dready I don't think women are told they can't. I think as a stereotypically weaker gender women have to be raunchier to make it in comedy. They have to mention the things that most women were ingrained not to mention. Men are empowered by their outspoken and opinionated nature while women are looked at as bitches for theirs(not me personally but I've seen it happen). Its a hypocritical world we live in and this extends to comedy. I don't think its about men being more open to laughing at themselves as it is about people's apprehension AND scrutiny (they demand more FUNNY from a female) when laughing at women. And I wouldn't say audiences are afraid to laugh at women but I would say that they are careful to laugh at the "right" moments. I do think women are wearier though then men when putting themselves on the chopping block of standup or portraying themselves in comedy. Let's face it, women as a whole care more about their image than men as a whole. Sure you have women who don't and the pretty boys who do, but I think they're the minority of their larger wholes.
There's a plethora of reasons why there are fewer women comics.
One, is that girls are raised a certain way. They're encouraged to be nice, pretty, etc. They're not encouraged to be funny.
Second, becoming a female comic is extremely hard. Traveling on the road to work (where you make the money to pay your bills) is more dangerous for a girl traveling alone than it is for guys. i know a couple of friends, female comics, who were attacked while on the road.
Third, guys aren't welcoming to female comics. Many men dismiss female comics with "chicks ain't funny."
Fourth, subject matter. Chamburger says female comics have to be raunchier to make it - I disagree that they have to, but some do (Lisa Lampenelli, Chelsea Handler, Whitney Cummings). So, the subject matter they choose makes a lot of audiences uncomfortable. And, there are only so many variations on period jokes the hackier female comics can come up with.
Fifth, a comedy audience is made up, many nights, by couples dating. Women in the audience, in this dynamic, call the shots on funny. If a girl laughs at a comic, it's "okay" for the guy to laugh, as it shows a similar sense of humor and increases the chances of getting lucky. If a girl in the audience doesn't find a comic funny, and the guy is laughing uproariously, odds are good he's not getting any. And girls judge girls who are on-stage. If they're too pretty, they shut down and don't laugh, as she's a threat. If they're funny, and the guy laughs, it's a threat. A lot of women will tell you they don't find female comics funny. You would think shared experiences would win out, but it doesn't.
There are exceptions to all of these general observations, as well as arguments that can be offered against any of these points, but after 12 years on the road in comedy, I can tell you it's pretty accurate.
gelder
One, is that girls are raised a certain way. They're encouraged to be nice, pretty, etc. They're not encouraged to be funny.
Second, becoming a female comic is extremely hard. Traveling on the road to work (where you make the money to pay your bills) is more dangerous for a girl traveling alone than it is for guys. i know a couple of friends, female comics, who were attacked while on the road.
Third, guys aren't welcoming to female comics. Many men dismiss female comics with "chicks ain't funny."
Fourth, subject matter. Chamburger says female comics have to be raunchier to make it - I disagree that they have to, but some do (Lisa Lampenelli, Chelsea Handler, Whitney Cummings). So, the subject matter they choose makes a lot of audiences uncomfortable. And, there are only so many variations on period jokes the hackier female comics can come up with.
Fifth, a comedy audience is made up, many nights, by couples dating. Women in the audience, in this dynamic, call the shots on funny. If a girl laughs at a comic, it's "okay" for the guy to laugh, as it shows a similar sense of humor and increases the chances of getting lucky. If a girl in the audience doesn't find a comic funny, and the guy is laughing uproariously, odds are good he's not getting any. And girls judge girls who are on-stage. If they're too pretty, they shut down and don't laugh, as she's a threat. If they're funny, and the guy laughs, it's a threat. A lot of women will tell you they don't find female comics funny. You would think shared experiences would win out, but it doesn't.
There are exceptions to all of these general observations, as well as arguments that can be offered against any of these points, but after 12 years on the road in comedy, I can tell you it's pretty accurate.
gelder
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A search on google for "women aren't funny" brings up all this on the first page:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/01/hitchens200701
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/research/2011/why-women-arent-funny/
http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_500/594_why-women-arent-funny.html
http://incorrectpleasures.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-women-arent-funny-in-general.html
http://www.opednews.com/articles/10-Reasons-Women-Aren-t-Fu-by-Jill-Jackson-100717-12.html
A google search for "men aren't funny" turns up practically the same list of results plus more about how women aren't funny.
I do think you make some valid points, CHam. And I can't speak to how comfortable men are with laughing at female comics. BUT
At SXSW last year, the fest had to make a last minute change because, without even realizing it, they only booked ONE female comic. Could you imagine if that happened but with a different minority? Only one black comic? Only one latino/a comic? I just can't believe that out of the entire country of top-tier comics, they only thought one female was funny enough for their fest?
Or look at improv troupes. You will almost never see more than 2 females out of 6-8 people. And that's actually an improvement from more than a decade ago (SNL is finally catching on and the show is funnier for it). Plus, at any improv show, I would bet my paycheck that you won't see a woman on the stage without a man, too.
Sorry for the rant. But my point is that women are told they aren't funny. A woman comic is going to face a harder time getting booked, and is going to have to hear about how, if they are good, that they are the exception and how surprising and refreshing it is to see a funny woman. Now, maybe they don't get booked as much because the men doing the programming have the same fear that you mentioned "people won't get it. They'll be afraid to laugh because she's a woman." Either way it's a sad fact. But that's life, nothing is fair. For anyone.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/01/hitchens200701
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/research/2011/why-women-arent-funny/
http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_500/594_why-women-arent-funny.html
http://incorrectpleasures.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-women-arent-funny-in-general.html
http://www.opednews.com/articles/10-Reasons-Women-Aren-t-Fu-by-Jill-Jackson-100717-12.html
A google search for "men aren't funny" turns up practically the same list of results plus more about how women aren't funny.
I do think you make some valid points, CHam. And I can't speak to how comfortable men are with laughing at female comics. BUT
At SXSW last year, the fest had to make a last minute change because, without even realizing it, they only booked ONE female comic. Could you imagine if that happened but with a different minority? Only one black comic? Only one latino/a comic? I just can't believe that out of the entire country of top-tier comics, they only thought one female was funny enough for their fest?
Or look at improv troupes. You will almost never see more than 2 females out of 6-8 people. And that's actually an improvement from more than a decade ago (SNL is finally catching on and the show is funnier for it). Plus, at any improv show, I would bet my paycheck that you won't see a woman on the stage without a man, too.
Sorry for the rant. But my point is that women are told they aren't funny. A woman comic is going to face a harder time getting booked, and is going to have to hear about how, if they are good, that they are the exception and how surprising and refreshing it is to see a funny woman. Now, maybe they don't get booked as much because the men doing the programming have the same fear that you mentioned "people won't get it. They'll be afraid to laugh because she's a woman." Either way it's a sad fact. But that's life, nothing is fair. For anyone.
Either way it's a sad fact. But that's life, nothing is fair. For anyone.
Ahhh, the story of the monetized human race. I concur wholeheartedly.
Some movies the women get it almost as bad as the men, if not equally. Family Guy does as well as that the movie The Matador, had some gags like that.
I thought Get Him To The Greek was funny.
I think people complain too much. If they don't like it then don't watch it. People have different senses of humor and what is funny for one is not funny for another.
I am sure some people thought Lucky Chuck was demeaning to women but I thought it was funny and awsome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7Qw1vG_KI
I think people complain too much. If they don't like it then don't watch it. People have different senses of humor and what is funny for one is not funny for another.
I am sure some people thought Lucky Chuck was demeaning to women but I thought it was funny and awsome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7Qw1vG_KI
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well if women stayed in the kitchen where they belong, they wouldn't be offended by movies.
What is the issue/argument "on the proverbial table"?
OP is a troll who should have been booted long ago.
OP is bringing nothing to this table.