archived-videos "Antihero" trailer rough cut -- seeking opinions

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

Wow, cutting a trailer is difficult. If you'd like to offer feedback, I think it best that you watch the trailer first, then read below.

http://vimeo.com/18500768

PW: indietalk






I can definitely see the prevailing logic in having someone else cut your trailer. Unfortunately, I don't really have that as an option. I didn't want this to be one of those trailers that tells you the whole damn story (in fact, I intentionally left out some pretty major characters). I just want it to give you the basic premise, and hopefully translate the feel of the movie. Since I made the damn thing, it's difficult to know if I'm giving just enough information, or not enough, or what.

I'd love to hear from anybody and everybody. There are a bunch of people on this forum who already know what the movie is about. Of course I'd love to hear any of your reactions. Moreso, I'd love to hear reactions from people who know nothing about "Antihero".

Based on this trailer, what would you say this movie is about? What would you say the feel of the movie is? Does this trailer interest you in seeing more? Does anything confuse you?

This is a rough cut. I want to lock video before touching audio, so this is all in-cam mic.

Oh, and a couple side-notes, just so you don't waste your time commenting on them. The Cracker Funk logo in the beginning -- I didn't want to put that there. I tried so many different variations, and gave up. I need the lines, "Where were you last night", and "Candices house", but those come so much earlier in the scene, and it just looked really weird having them magically transport from one location to another, so as a last resort I slapped a logo over the top of it.

Also, the "Antihero" title at the end; again, this is a rough cut -- I'll clean up that messiness.

Thanks a bunch!
 
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Rockstar,

Thanks for the input. However, it's actually the other way around. It's the action and stuff that doesn't fit with the bycicle clip. The movie is a comedy. It's got action and drama, but it's a comedy, so I think I need to be clear about that in the trailer, hence the comedic bookends.

mad_hatter said:
CF, I know nothing of your film, all I’ve seen is this trailer.

One thought I did have when watching it, is that maybe you’re giving away too much! Nobody else seems to have thought this though, so maybe it’s just me.

I could be wrong, but I do think I know how your story pans out. Obviously, I don’t know how it ends from this, or who the antagonist is, or what their story is. But I do get a good sense of what happens in your film. I’d almost be inclined to take out the section where the guy says something along the lines of “I don’t like what’s coming out of that house…”. To me, that gives away how they’ve gotten themselves into trouble. If you leave that out and just go from him revealing that he’s psychic, to more thieving, to the fighting, it leaves it open to interpretation, as to how exactly they get into these situations.

By the way, it’s not just the title I liked, I thought the whole thing was pretty awesome.
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That's awesome. Thanks, hatter. As I mentioned earlier, my intent was for the following to be communicated in the trailer.

1. Dude is psychic
2. Dude and friend exploit psychic power to steal stuff
3. Dude and friend, because of psychic power, become accidental heroes

Of the people who didn't know anything about the movie, it seems you're the only person who really got this, so obviously, I didn't successfully edit the trailer in a way to convey what I intended.

However, I'm giving serious thought to keeping it vague, or perhaps going even more vague, as you suggest. Perhaps all I really need to convey is the following:

1. Dude is psychic
2. Michief
3. Action, drama, and comedy

You know? Maybe the audience doesn't need to really know the story. Maybe they just need a quick teaser.

The good news is that this decision isn't crucial, at the moment. I need to finish a trailer within the next couple days, but that's just for the purpose of showing people around Richmond, and to be frank, they'll be interested because it's a local film, and the trailer (in it's current state) at least has an exciting feel, so I don't think the trailer needs to be perfect for my Richmond audience. I only need to get it perfect for when I make the festival rounds, and I've only just begun the submission process, so I've got time.

Thanks again. Cheers!
 
I think the trailer has it's moments. I think it looks like the actors definitely had fun making this film...there is good energy.

As far as the plot, it's pretty clear what this is about...two douche bags who think they are superheros, but it turns out they are...well...douche bags. It's a fun concept, and if their antics and performances are solid, it could make an entertaining hour and a half.

Weindel....hmmm...from New England?

I think the trailer could use a bit of color correcting...nothing fancy, just a little sumin sumin.
 
M1chae1 said:
I think the trailer has it's moments. I think it looks like the actors definitely had fun making this film...there is good energy.

As far as the plot, it's pretty clear what this is about...two douche bags who think they are superheros, but it turns out they are...well...douche bags. It's a fun concept, and if their antics and performances are solid, it could make an entertaining hour and a half.

Weindel....hmmm...from New England?

I think the trailer could use a bit of color correcting...nothing fancy, just a little sumin sumin.
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Hey, thanks. God, we had SO MUCH fun making this movie.

Ahhh, you basically got the plot. Not spot-on, but pretty close. I don't believe I successfully conveyed the info I had intended, but I'm starting to think less might be better. Maybe. Still deciding.

I probably do have a New England connection, but it would be pretty far removed, and not from the Weindl side of my family. My mom's side has been here since the very beginning of colonial settlements. The Weindl side of the family, though, has only been here a few generations -- early 20th century German immigrants.
 
I would probably just shorten the bike scene if you are keeping it. To me it seems a little too long. Overall I think the trailer is great. Good luck Cracker.


"1. Dude is psychic
2. Dude and friend exploit psychic power to steal stuff
3. Dude and friend, because of psychic power, become accidental heroes"

I think that was pretty obvious in the trailer. I got that the first time I watched it.

I kinda would not mind you having the car scene where they are walking down a street and steal stuff in cars. Remember that early scene you showed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHTnPlRJVg from the Meet the Boys Thread. Maybe a clip of that. I would probably pick 0:54 to 1:09 for the trailer. Maybe make that a different trailer if it does not fit.
 
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I would watch this film. It's hard for me to separate whether I was sold on the trailer or on the buzz that's been built up here.

You've got a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but also, you've got 3 seconds to grab your YT audience. Maybe 7 seconds on Vimeo.

A bunch of minor points below. Don't bother responding to these for the sake of it, you're busy. Just act on them, sleep on them or discard them as you wish. We're all spending a lot of time giving detailed advice cos we all sense you have a lot there.

Points

- The soundtrack is too loud. I couldn't hear the actors til the second watch. This is a common problem when you know the dialogue off by heart, you tend to mix the sound too loud. Too loud: People are going to click off and you're finished.

- The soundtrack is 'on-its-way' but nothing special yet. I would spend a day or two looking for something else, OR sit down with your music program and re-engineer the track til it's great. It'd only take 6 hours to push you from 1) Half-decent-acceptable-soundtrack-that- you-or-your-friend-did, to 2) Excellent. And that 6 hours might get you another 10,000 views + viral buzz.

- I would suggest a short period of quicker cuts between visually different locations, which will give a range to the film and define it as a feature.
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- I don't know about the speed angle, but yes: There were few establishing shots, so the trailer had a kind of claustrophobic feel at times. Nick nailed it, there was no range. With a trailer you are showing the audience your film has range. Both emotional, visual, musical. There were only close/medium shots of people. I loved your establishing shot on the rough cut scene. If you have more like that I would stick them in. Just 12 frames wide-angle, so we know its a feature and we know where we are, plus we see the 7D in it's glory. You can even 'lie' with the establishing shots, and use different establishing shots from different scenes. No one's going to know or care.

Plus the contrast when you slow it down and drop the music will work really nicely.
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Exactly, there's not enough contrast. You had the same track throughout the trailer, right? Sure, this can work IF you have an epic track, but you are missing an opportunity to play with pacing and tension, to speed up, slow down. Your cuts show pacing: from funny, to violent... we see the range of the film, but that range is restricted by two things:

1) The soundtrack, which gives a same-old same-old feeling throughout. This is not a knock on the tune, just your over-use of it. Where's the musical arc?

2) Your lack of establishing, wide, zoomed out shots.


Third watch:

Example, at the start:

"How could you not know yr a psychic."
"I guess I've always known."

I didn't see a shot of the two actors together to establish they're talking, so how do I know you're not cutting between scenes? It's disorienting, but not in a good way. I would have some fade to blacks or a couple of titles, or a bit of narration to orient us. Insert things to show us where we are.

OK, so you have all that fighting drama in the middle, but the track keeps plodding over the top so you're forcing the audience to feel these epic scenes at that medium-tempo, trancey pace. In other words, you're inhibiting the drama you worked so hard to film, with the wrong tune.

I would screech the trailer to a halt at 35-40 seconds and drastically change the music. Try laying in some Brazilian Samba or Indonesian Gamelan as a placeholder, see what that does to the adrenalin. Then when we go back to that trancey tune, we've been through a musical arc. Get some big booms and crashes from freesound.org, or just make your own. Trailers should boom and crash a little, even mumblecore ones.

You could drastically rework this thing just by adding some wide shots, being experimental with the soundtrack, making the middle better.

Another thing, when he's rifling through the drawers looking for a passport. I didn't know he was housebreaking, so no tension. For all I know he could be running out the door to get on a plane. Same when he's going "that one, that one and that one." that one what? Sure, you know, but we don't.

Maybe that's a deliberate choice, and you want to keep what they're doing secret til the middle of the trailer, but in my view it's a bad move. I didn't know they were housebreaking, so if I didn't know the film, I would have clicked off. It's confusing. Not intriguing, just confusing.

The cool thing is you can fix all this in 4-8 hours or so.

Also, I would have a preview of the whole thing on Indietalk before doing that screening in Richmond. Better we pick you up on these flaws than yr first ever audience.

Well done keeping it short and sweet, that's a good move.

I didn't read your spoiler so I can check it with fresh eyes, and I still won't.

Tons of potential here. Tons.
 
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1. Dude is psychic
2. Dude and friend exploit psychic power to steal stuff
3. Dude and friend, because of psychic power, become accidental heroes"
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I definitely didn't get this on the first watch. Is that my fault or yours? Remember, I'm too much of a cheapass to get the premiere membership, so I haven't been following production as closely as other people. I came to this knowing virtually nothing, like all the rest of yr trailer viewers.

I got the feel of this film but not what's going on.

Finding that Intriguing/Confusing balance is a really tough one. If in doubt, I would go for clarity everytime. There's no way you can spoil a whole film in a minute...

BTW the ending is great.
 
Sorry for the triple post:

but I'm starting to think less might be better.
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It's not less, or more. Your length and choice of cuts are more or less fine as far as I know. It's how you arrange them and orient the viewer.

However, I'm giving serious thought to keeping it vague, or perhaps going even more vague, as you suggest. Perhaps all I really need to convey is the following:

1. Dude is psychic
2. Michief
3. Action, drama, and comedy

You know? Maybe the audience doesn't need to really know the story. Maybe they just need a quick teaser.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. You can be vague about the total plot of the film, that's not important, but you can't be vague as to what's happening in each individual snippet.

Maybe as a mental exercise, imagine you are making a trailer for a bunch of drunk people who're waiting to see Naked Gun 2 1/2, or an early Jim Carey movie. Assume no attention span, assume they don't want to do any work, but don't give them everything either. It's not easy...

4th watch:

No, when he's grabbing that laptop and rifling those drawers there's still nothing to show he's housebreaking, so how do we know? If you put those scenes AFTER he steals the money we have a better idea. If you put those scenes after the scene of them kicking down the door we know for sure.

How many shots of them breaking and entering do you have? You need two, but you only give us one, halfway through, when he kicks the door. That's where most of the confusion comes from.
 
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I would use the Mamet Acid Bath for every two second scene in your trailer. Who wants what from who etc. Hell, give the guy a call, I'm sure he'll be happy to help.
 
Knowing the story, yes, you captured it. It's coming together nicely. A lot of good advice here on the audio, the pacing, and the content, so no need to rehash the same things. My only observation was the end. It cut out too abruptly, IMO. Made it look incomplete.

And, yes, it made me want to see more. Good stuff. :)
 
Thanks, VP. Actually, I agree with your take on the end. My opinion is that it feels incomplete because the other guys' line (off-camera) is cut off mid-sentence. I think it will feel more complete when I edit the audio -- we recorded ADR for that scene, and the off-camera line will not be there. Only one way to find out.
 
Last thing:

If you had a title near the start that said:

"Will Pork Rind keep using his powers to break and enter?"

...or similar words to that effect, you could sort out 70 per cent of the trailer's problems in 2 mins.

*

You might not be into titles. But that's the only real question you need to ask in the trailer, so you could try showing it with your cuts instead.
 
OK, Cracker, I've watched it a few times. Gotta be honest. The trailer lacks something. It didn't make me want to see the film. This DOESN'T mean that your writing and directing skills aren't solid. In fact, I can easily see from the shots that you are quite capable in both departments, and the two guys look like they had a lot of fun with the shoot so that is key in my book. But the cut of the trailer didn't sell me on the content. That said, I'd still love to see the film in its entirety when it's done. :)

BTW - I totally loved what you did with the Secret Santa video. Have you considered cutting together something weird and abstract like that? Just a thought! Not saying that is the right approach for Antihero, but there was something inventive and tight about that rap video.

I've always been a fan of what they did with the Mouse Hunt trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvFeWRpeU1Y

Your film seems to be along the same lines: two guys, antics, shenanigans, the wrong house, etc. 2 cents for ya!
 
Needless to say, I appreciate the honesty, Flicker. That's an interesting idea to do something abstract. Could really catch attention by being completely different from every other trailer.

Cheers!
 
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