An odd question

[semianimus]

Hey all,

I've recently joined, but I've lurked for quite some time and I've noticed something interesting. I'm a professional magician, by trade, so I frequent the magic forums a lot. Everyone here acts very strange in comparison.

For instance, someone on this forum asks a question and everyone immediately jumps in and actually answers the question with real, helpful, sincere advice. This would never happen on the magic forums. A sincere answer might accidentally crop in here and there, but for the most part questions are answered with snarky and sarcastic quips. Beginners stupid enough to ask for help are quickly dispatched by those who know good and well that all questions, (novice to advanced) shouldn't be asked in the first place and forums are just places to throw ones own weight around.

What's with you guys? I'm genuinely curious. Do magicians just have a natural tendency towards being bitter and cynical? Are filmakers more laid back and easy going?

Both magicians and filmakers are very similar in many ways. We are both in the business of storytelling using various means of deception, misdirection, special effects, lighting etc., but for some reason the attitudes differ considerably. Perhaps filmakers are simply more appreciated by the general public and therefore remain more optimistic about their craft. I don't know, but I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on the matter.

Semianimus

 

[Duckforceone]

i would think, magicians are in the trade because of secrets.. they don't reveal them... they want you to find it on your own... magic is most often a singular experience...

whereas movies, are enjoyed by more.. the more who makes movies, the more we get to see... and you need more people to know the stuff...

 

[Caidh Mor]

Hey all,

I've recently joined, but I've lurked for quite some time and I've noticed something interesting. I'm a professional magician, by trade, so I frequent the magic forums a lot. Everyone here acts very strange in comparison.

For instance, someone on this forum asks a question and everyone immediately jumps in and actually answers the question with real, helpful, sincere advice. This would never happen on the magic forums. A sincere answer might accidentally crop in here and there, but for the most part questions are answered with snarky and sarcastic quips. Beginners stupid enough to ask for help are quickly dispatched by those who know good and well that all questions, (novice to advanced) shouldn't be asked in the first place and forums are just places to throw ones own weight around.

What's with you guys? I'm genuinely curious. Do magicians just have a natural tendency towards being bitter and cynical? Are filmakers more laid back and easy going?

Both magicians and filmakers are very similar in many ways. We are both in the business of storytelling using various means of deception, misdirection, special effects, lighting etc., but for some reason the attitudes differ considerably. Perhaps filmakers are simply more appreciated by the general public and therefore remain more optimistic about their craft. I don't know, but I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on the matter.

Semianimus

I, uh...really? I mean, I haven't been here a very long time, but I've noticed a very specific set of unspoken rules that people tend to follow here. I mean, in general people tend to strive to help, and I've never seen the magic forums, but I've seen a few threads that have you wading waist deep though snark within the first few posts.

I suppose the guidelines here are pretty simple, though:

1) Don't come off as unjustifiably pompous.

Good filmmakers, in my experience, require both a natural confidence and a highly self-critical outlook on their projects. Though normally rather mutually exclusive traits, maintaining both of them helps hone the ability to accept criticism because you're looking for all the things that are wrong with the project anyways, yet keep driving forward with a project because you're certain it's the best thing in the history of ever. The absolutely best example I have is the guy who came in looking to sell his start-up production company for 3-5 million. It wasn't long before the snarks smelled blood in the water and came over for some snacks. I'm pretty sure they're still finding pieces of him in other states.

2) Don't ask questions that you can Google Search

Asking for opinions or advice is completely all right most of the time here. However, if you decide to ask a question that is simple, factual knowledge that is easily found with a search engine, like "how many megapixels [a camera] shoots" or "what kind of lenses [a DSLR] uses" well...the snarks get hungry.

3) Be Specific

"What Camera should I get?" is the most common representation of this. Your answers will likely range anywhere from an Alexa to the RED Epic because you didn't specify a price range, or what you're looking for your camera to do. This one's able to pretty easily be remedied, but you're still likely to fact residual snark throughout the thread.

4) Discarding Advice

This one's a real hot button. If you ask for advice, and someone takes the time to give it, don't tell them that they're wrong, just thank them for their time. In a lot of ways this ties back to the first point, pompousness. You want to piss off people on a film board? Discard their advice.

Can't think of any others off of the top of my head, but based on current observations, it's a decent list.

 

[rayw]

Independent filmmaking encompasses two groups, one "more true" to the term, the other a defacto add on.

First group: "I have an idea for a film, but the major studios don't think they can make money off of it, so they don't want it, so I gotta make it myself. I A) think it can make money, or B) don't really care if it makes money, I just wanna make a movie."

Second group: "I have minimal resources and wanna make a movie just like people go fishing with a rod & tackle box & maybe a john boat but don't necessarily want to be a pro tournament fisherman. But if I'm pretty good I wouldn't turn down sponsorship! But I'll mostly be happy just plain fishing alongside ten thousand other guys and girls who also really don't care."

Both groups are "independent" from the major and mini-major studios and affiliated distribution companies.

The folks in the first group can secure financing to see their expensive craft get into major festivals with a long shot at distribution to theaters. They already got money or access to it. They ain't cruising these message boards.

The second group is pretty much what you're going to see at a sport forum, be it fishing, hunting, mountain biking, soccer, whatever. There's no practical sense that the economic benefit of one of us is a direct zero-sum economic threat to any other forum member.
In that scenario WTH's the point of guarding any trade secrets?

Whereas in magician-land... as small as the magician community is (I don't see magician equipment being sold at WalMart and Sam's Club, but anyone can get a Canon t2i from there) there's more likely a zero-sum attitude where even simple magic tricks, which are essentially performances to draw and attract an audience, preferably a paying one, beyond what can be derived from books are guarded fairly well.
The financial success of one magician comes at the direct economic cost of others within any given community of potential audience members.

Because there is little financial demand for magician performances there's more reason to fight over resources.
Because there is a glut of video content for film product there's little reason to fight over resources.

IMH business and economics minded O.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Actually, I think it's probably just because we have larger penises.





























See what I did there?

 

[MetalRenard]

I think it just depends on the forum. I've visited a large number of game dev forums and I've only found a couple that are genuinely nice environments to learn and share in.
One of them I ended up being elected moderator and now admin on and the other made me into a VIP compared to third that I got "bullied" on (quite a few years back now).

 

[Zensteve]

What's with you guys? I'm genuinely curious. Do magicians just have a natural tendency towards being bitter and cynical? Are filmakers more laid back and easy going?

There's plenty of wound-up, delusional, psycho filmmakers out there to fill a large asylum.

At the end of the day, though, film-making is a collaborative endeavour. It takes a village.

I would not think magicians to be bitter & cynical. But what kind of parallel is in play?

Both magicians and filmakers are very similar in many ways. We are both in the business of storytelling using various means of deception, misdirection, special effects, lighting etc.,

I dig that. There's been several films based on that premise, too.

Perhaps filmakers are simply more appreciated by the general public and therefore remain more optimistic about their craft.

Maybe magicians are just dicks.

I kid, I kid, obviously.

At the end of the day, there are a variety of good forums and a variety of poor forums. All populated by their own characters & feel. If you're only finding terrible magician forums, you're probably skipping more than a few.

Also... CrackerFunk was right.

/schwing

 

[TheArtist]

I, uh...really? I mean, I haven't been here a very long time, but I've noticed a very specific set of unspoken rules that people tend to follow here. I mean, in general people tend to strive to help, and I've never seen the magic forums, but I've seen a few threads that have you wading waist deep though snark within the first few posts.

I suppose the guidelines here are pretty simple, though:

1) Don't come off as unjustifiably pompous.

Good filmmakers, in my experience, require both a natural confidence and a highly self-critical outlook on their projects. Though normally rather mutually exclusive traits, maintaining both of them helps hone the ability to accept criticism because you're looking for all the things that are wrong with the project anyways, yet keep driving forward with a project because you're certain it's the best thing in the history of ever. The absolutely best example I have is the guy who came in looking to sell his start-up production company for 3-5 million. It wasn't long before the snarks smelled blood in the water and came over for some snacks. I'm pretty sure they're still finding pieces of him in other states.

2) Don't ask questions that you can Google Search

Asking for opinions or advice is completely all right most of the time here. However, if you decide to ask a question that is simple, factual knowledge that is easily found with a search engine, like "how many megapixels [a camera] shoots" or "what kind of lenses [a DSLR] uses" well...the snarks get hungry.

3) Be Specific{/U]

"What Camera should I get?" is the most common representation of this. Your answers will likely range anywhere from an Alexa to the RED Epic because you didn't specify a price range, or what you're looking for your camera to do. This one's able to pretty easily be remedied, but you're still likely to fact residual snark throughout the thread.

4) Discarding Advice

This one's a real hot button. If you ask for advice, and someone takes the time to give it, don't tell them that they're wrong, just thank them for their time. In a lot of ways this ties back to the first point, pompousness. You want to piss off people on a film board? Discard their advice.

Can'[t think of any others off of the top of my head, but based on current observations, it;s a decent list.

You forgot

5)h44


Also, maybe they are afraid of their art going boom if all their secret and tricks are easily uncovered by a Google search ?