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Am I killing my own script?

R

RaymondLeggs

Am I killing my own script / treatment? Whenever I start my treatment I always get stuck at about 4 scenes in

I came up with a list of ALL of the things the movie can't have, and can have. I set them up as rules.

The premise of the movie is. There is something in the Cargo hold of the HMHS Britannic that both the good
guy and the baddie wants. I havent decided what yet. The only way to get it out is to Bring the ship up from the bottom og the sea... I have even taken in account the Damage the ship suffered during its impact to the bottom. The good guys do some repair work (Its talked about but never seen)

I'm following the william c martell made for cable formula keep all the big action outside, that can be done with Miniatures, or VFX and stock footage, keep the big drama/smaller action inside. since I plan on making this myself.

they dont make many good old-fashioned adventure movies anymore, its all any movie that ends with the word "man" or "woman" or a toy line movie... i wanna go back to erroll flynn, three musketeers, and victorian literature type movies. stuff with sophistication, class.

1. The hero cannot have superpowers/ paranormal powers such as flying, telekenisis, superstreinght etc.
2. a comic book feel (within reason of course)
3. a disembodied villain (head on life support
4. a villain or hero with a defority hiding/life supporting mask.
5. a blade runner like setting
6. a light hearted tone
7. satirical elements
8. Over the top and illogical CGI action scenes.
9. Juvinile Humor
10. supernatural creatures (vampires , werewolves, shape shifters etc.)
11. made up minerals and elements
12. Cures for non fictional diseases , viruses etc.
13.supernatural elements , ghosts hauntings, etc.
14. overt scifi elements, (clones non real life energy sources etc.)

What the movie can have.

1. bald of evil
2. bald of awesome
3. a documentary feel
4. corperate malice
5. lost documents that can change the western worldf as we know it!
6. green tech
7. an enviromental message
8. a dark tone
9. a realistic tone & feel
10. religious corporation (evil of course)
11.V for vendetta/ 1984/ type feel
12. a classic literature adventure type feel/ noir feel (any retro feel)
13.great ceasars ghost!
14. Your all a bunch of god-d#@%% communists every last one of ya!
 
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RaymondLeggs said:
1. The hero cannot have superpowers/ paranormal powers such as flying, telekenisis, superstreinght etc.
2. a comic book feel (within reason of course)
3. a disembodied villain (head on life support
4. a villain or hero with a defority hiding/life supporting mask.
5. a blade runner like setting
6. a light hearted tone
7. satirical elements
8. Over the top and illogical CGI action scenes.
9. Juvinile Humor
10. supernatural creatures (vampires , werewolves, shape shifters etc.)
11. made up minerals and elements
12. Cures for non fictional diseases , viruses etc.
13.supernatural elements , ghosts hauntings, etc.
14. overt scifi elements, (clones non real life energy sources etc.)
Click to expand...

If Michael Bay was told that... he would die.
 
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Are you killing your own script? Probably not, but I wouldn't do it the way you're doing it.

It's the negative parts that I'd remove, and increase the specificity or your goals/aim/outline. Align your thought processes to empowering. You don't need the negative side to create your vision. Focus on what you want, not on what you don't want:

Don't want a comic book feel (within reason of course) becomes Want a realistic Film Noir feel to the movie.

Don't want a disembodied villain (head on life support becomes... Hell. I don't know what it becomes. Would a good story have the bad guy on life support? Aren't they supposed to be going around killing people?

Don't want a villain or hero with a defority hiding/life supporting mask becomes the hero and villain are both proud of who they are and wants the world to know their identity.

Don't want a blade runner like setting becomes Set in 2013 Earth.

Don't want a light hearted tone becomes Is a serious horror film. Believable. Everyone dies.

Put in the negatives will only help you focus on what you don't want. It's important to focus on what you DO want and move forward towards that!

Good luck.
 
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Ho-Leee shitake mushrooms!

Uh... yeah. Following that convoluted cake walk of can'ts and cans is gonna constipate all but the most nimble writer/directors.

IDK if you're familiar with my routine rant about "write for the resources you have, not the pie-in-the-sky crazy sh!t you can think up", which actually does support this type of outlined limited approach, but that's quite a list you got there.


Since that approach pretty consistantly provides you grief, trying another approach probably can't do much damage, eh? :)
With my equipment, cast & crew, location, props & costumes, and budget foremost in mind I try to fabricate a premise that I can "drop" like a bedsheet over the graphic below's structural skeleton. Ad hoc or improvosational details will flesh out the beast, but its structure remains defined and largely contained.

20130320TwoConstraintThreeActStructure-2013-Compact_zps7a6632d5.png


I've outlined several films by this structure as examples: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...U1VUxaVDhCQmVnVFBLeUxSaWc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

And have made a tute geared for creating shorts but the principles still apply for feature length films.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD-l1ziK0Yk



From your description it sounds like you have (a majority of?) settings and locations already plotted out.
You have (jussferfun lettuce use industry terms!) a protagonist and antagonist in mind.
And you have an as yet undefined MacGuffin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin
Great.

How did Erroll get himself into a decision making point in 'The Three Musketeers' that defined Act I?
How can your protag do the same to define Act I?
How did the antag in 'TTM' come into conflict with Erroll?
How will your antag vie with your protag?
What was Erroll fighting for in 'TTM'?
What will your protag be fighting for?
What was Erroll's great challenge to overcome that defines Act III?
What will your protag have to overcome to define your Act III?

Great and compelling stories are often about the situations posed before our characters and the decisions they make - often controversial!

GL!
 
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Ignore your rules.

Just write the best damn story you can - ideally with great characters (with flaws) and sharp dialogue, exciting suspense and action, surprises and/or a twist or two.

Assume your reader is intelligent and make your story so good that they must turn the page to find out what's coming next.

Ratchet up the tension... Give your reader/cinema audience a hell of a ride.

And when I get stuck on a particular scene or problem writing a screenplay, I take a break for a day or two. I then brainstorm and ask friends for advice. If I still can't resolve the issue, I write other scenes. Eventually a solution will come to me - I might be driving, relaxing on the sofa or thinking about it - it may be a few days later or a week or two, but it will come.

Some articles that might help:

Drama and Conflict
http://reelauthors.com/script-analysis-coverage/drama-and-conflict.php

Put your Characters in the Worst Possible Situations
http://reelauthors.com/script-analy...aracters-in-the-worst-possible-situations.php

Amp Things Up
http://reelauthors.com/script-analysis-coverage/amp-things-up.php

Set Pieces: Make Them Spectacular
http://reelauthors.com/script-analysis-coverage/set-pieces-make-them-fantastic.php

How to Create Great Characters
http://reelauthors.com/script-analysis-coverage/how-to-create-great-characters.php
 
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The charachters are supposed to be stuck during the middle of the second act and third act on both the salvage ship, and the decaying britannic. during a Storm and there is a member of the team killing them off one by one and is supposed to be obvious who it is from the get -go but it may not be that person. it's certainly not the protagonist, but it is for the Mcguffin which is a document that was to guarantee that several european countries were to become a weopon producing commonwealth after the war.

the issue is that during this present day several european countries have had unstable economies and hostile rebel groups have been threatening to take over certain countries. Meaning that the document could inadvertantly start WWIII!

I have a couple of other situations for the story too, just in different settings, and setup.

I have been working to strip it down to a basic Charles bronson type action thriller.

I have another idea in the works that puts the same protagonist in a different setting. a hijacked airliner...
 
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Darn! And sparkling emo vampires and zombies make every movie pop! :lol:

Seriously, along the line of Paul and Ray, lay out your story. You have a premise but not the story. That's what's making it hard. Lay down your foundation and it will be easier to flesh out your treatment. Put your basic idea into a rough outline.
 
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The only thing I "must" comment on is the no satirical elements one. Really?

You're killin' me over here! You're killin' me! ------> delivered with the best Frank Costanza impression I can muster.

Okay, okay, I guess I can see how satirical elements wouldn't fit right in a story meant to feel like 1984. =P

Anyway, what do I know about it.

I agree though about focusing on what you want, instead. Sounds like an interesting story. =)
 
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IndiePaul said:
Ignore your rules.

Just write the best damn story you can - ideally with great characters (with flaws) and sharp dialogue, exciting suspense and action, surprises and/or a twist or two.

Assume your reader is intelligent and make your story so good that they must turn the page to find out what's coming next.

Ratchet up the tension... Give your reader/cinema audience a hell of a ride.
Click to expand...

Absolutely - write the best story you can tell right now.
 
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ChimpPhobiaFilms said:
What about Brazil?
Click to expand...

:) Interesting example. I was trying to be expansive, I guess, regarding what Raymond wants to do. I wasn't trying to argue that satire doesn't belong in a dystopian story like Brazil. I generally love satire, that's why the Frank Costanza thing above. It cut me like a knife when Raymond said he didn't want one lick of satire, as though it's a bad thing. Not really, heh heh. Hey, it's Raymond's story.

And, thick me, I guess my thought that Nineteen Eighty-Four is without satire or that it might be in alignment with Raymond's goals in that way was fallacious. I was thinking of how humorless and grim Nineteen Eighty-Four is. But, duh me, that's not the same as being satire-less. So yeah.
 
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richy said:
:) Interesting example. I was trying to be expansive, I guess, regarding what Raymond wants to do. I wasn't trying to argue that satire doesn't belong in a dystopian story like Brazil. I generally love satire, that's why the Frank Costanza thing above. It cut me like a knife when Raymond said he didn't want one lick of satire, as though it's a bad thing. Not really, heh heh. Hey, it's Raymond's story.

And, thick me, I guess my thought that Nineteen Eighty-Four is without satire or that it might be in alignment with Raymond's goals in that way was fallacious. I was thinking of how humorless and grim Nineteen Eighty-Four is. But, duh me, that's not the same as being satire-less. So yeah.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying :yes:

I also don't quite understand why Raymond would want to have no satire/comedy at all.

There will be Blood and No Country for Old Men had humor and satirical elements. Those two were dark/bleak.

Alfred Hitchcock used humor and satirical elements as a tool in his film to elevate moments of suspense and tension.
 
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Here's what I got, using the current iteration of what I have a big mess but some important things are still there! dropped the scifi/1984 type stuff... went strait tech-thriller

I dont think you could really light a boiler thats been underwater for 96 years but I have never seen a bad guy killed by a busted steam engine before so I wrote it in!





Raise The Britannic
Once upon a time there was a A Private investegator/journalist named Jessica Ride . Obsessively writing articles on things nobody would ever attemt in real life
One day, Called in by the government to solve a series of murders at a research station .
Jessica Ride really wanted To stay at home and live her boring life. But Jessica Ride She wonders why she can never leave a peaceful life not marred by violence of some kind .
At the same time, Cold Calculating spy who can only see the paycheck and alliegence to MI6 Andrew Osnard just as badly wanted to do bad things that would ruin the Good Boy's life. Jessica Ride could do nothing about it, because Andrew Osnard Military skills.
Only with the help of her Freind Sarah Halle Jessica Ride was still reluctantly considering To stay at home and live her boring life.
At this point, Someone tries to kill sarah .
Jessica Ride decided it is time to do something about it. He goes on through a number of obstacles and learns a number of new skills.
Meanwhile, she starts falling for sarah and she realizes the only way to survive is to trust no one, and try to catch the villain before he can sabotage the salvage operation .
Everything seems to go well, but at this point, A submersible gets stuck in the wreckage of the Britannic which means that the bad gy can kill of almost everyone in one go by throwing off the entire operario .
Andrew Osnard is prevailing. The bad guy sees that Jessica ride is in charge of making sure all of the explosives that will releive the suction that is keeping the rusted hulk of the britannic stuck to the bottom of the ocean are in sequence. The villain tries to throw off the sequence which could make the wreck collapse or keep it stuck on the bottom of the ocean! .
At the same time, Jessica and Beautiful Girl become close while relaying radio messages from each other as the submersible begins to leak..
But things look truly bad for Jessica Ride . The control panel is shorted out causing ALL of the explosives to go off at once, but yet the hulk of the britannic still maintains its structural integrity, it refuses to lift from the ocean bottom
In this dark moment, Jessica Ride realizes that deep down inside, he/she really needs to be with Sarah, and not worry about saving the shipwreck but to get the sub out of the wreckage. .
Also, Sarah quickly estimakes the amount of compressed gas needed to bring the ship off the bottom quckly before the submersible floods out. In a flash of luck the hulk sloly begins to lift knocking the sub off the ship, both the sub and the brianniccrash to the surface in a cloud of salt water mud and rust. . Jessica Ride now has new hope
Jessica Ride is ready to face Andrew Osnard . Jessica catches Osnard in the act, during the cleanup of the britannic trying to light the old boiler so it could explode and blow up the ship, Jessica nd osnard fight, he is killed when the rotten steam pipe explodes .
It's all over. Jessica and sarah find the lost documents togeather in a cave and then supervise the restoration of the britannic a year later the ship is beautifully restored and she sails out into the open sea for the first time in 98 years!.
THE END
 
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This second pass is better. There is definitely a more structured story. There are still things which don't make sense to me. How do the murders tie into the Britannic? Is Jessica a lesbian or transsexual? How the hell did Andrew get involved? The sense I get is that you want a movie with a lesbian love scene and a ship rising up from the ocean floor. It feels like you've simply pasted quick elements around them to make a story.
Raise The Britannic
Once upon a time there was a A Private investegator/journalist named Jessica Ride . Obsessively writing articles on things nobody would ever attemt in real life
One day, Called in by the government to solve a series of murders at a research station .
Jessica Ride really wanted To stay at home and live her boring life. But Jessica Ride She wonders why she can never leave a peaceful life not marred by violence of some kind .
Click to expand...
How is being a PI/journalist a peaceful life? Would she consider it boring? Why would the government call her in to investigate murders? When did she get security clearance to investigate a research station? If she hates violence, it makes me wonder why she'd even accept the offer.
At the same time, Cold Calculating spy who can only see the paycheck and alliegence to MI6 Andrew Osnard just as badly wanted to do bad things that would ruin the Good Boy's life. Jessica Ride could do nothing about it, because Andrew Osnard Military skills.
Click to expand...
Why is a British agent against raising a British vessel? "Good Boy's life"? What does that mean? He seems to come out of nowhere. Did he commit the murders? It seems the British government could put pressure on the American government to not raise this vessel behind the scenes. Murder would be unnecessary and unwise with an ally.
Only with the help of her Freind Sarah Halle Jessica Ride was still reluctantly considering To stay at home and live her boring life.
Click to expand...
Say what? Where does Sarah fit into this? Another civilian being dragged into investigate murders?
At this point, Someone tries to kill sarah .
Jessica Ride decided it is time to do something about it. He goes on through a number of obstacles and learns a number of new skills.
Meanwhile, she starts falling for sarah and she realizes the only way to survive is to trust no one, and try to catch the villain before he can sabotage the salvage operation .
Click to expand...
Is Jessica a 'he' or 'she'? This seems to be the first we learn of the salvage operation. You might intro that earlier and link it into the motivation for the murders even before introducing Jessica.
Everything seems to go well, but at this point, A submersible gets stuck in the wreckage of the Britannic which means that the bad gy can kill of almost everyone in one go by throwing off the entire operario .
Andrew Osnard is prevailing. The bad guy sees that Jessica ride is in charge of making sure all of the explosives that will releive the suction that is keeping the rusted hulk of the britannic stuck to the bottom of the ocean are in sequence. The villain tries to throw off the sequence which could make the wreck collapse or keep it stuck on the bottom of the ocean! .
Click to expand...
Why is a civilian investigative reporter suddenly in charge of deploying explosives? How many and who are on the submersible? Wouldn't it be easier to destroy/sabotage the submersible?
At the same time, Jessica and Beautiful Girl become close while relaying radio messages from each other as the submersible begins to leak.
Click to expand...
I'm presuming the Beautiful Girl is Sarah?
But things look truly bad for Jessica Ride . The control panel is shorted out causing ALL of the explosives to go off at once, but yet the hulk of the britannic still maintains its structural integrity, it refuses to lift from the ocean bottom
In this dark moment, Jessica Ride realizes that deep down inside, he/she really needs to be with Sarah, and not worry about saving the shipwreck but to get the sub out of the wreckage.
Click to expand...
'He/she'? Where's the rest of the US military during all of this? Is she the only one on the submersible? The rest of us are also wondering why it's so important to raise this shipwreck. Is it really so important to Jessica that she'd leave Sarah and her boring life?
Also, Sarah quickly estimakes the amount of compressed gas needed to bring the ship off the bottom quckly before the submersible floods out. In a flash of luck the hulk sloly begins to lift knocking the sub off the ship, both the sub and the briannic crash to the surface in a cloud of salt water mud and rust. . Jessica Ride now has new hope
Click to expand...
Wow, that's some flash of luck. Just sayin', it's too convenient.
Jessica Ride is ready to face Andrew Osnard . Jessica catches Osnard in the act, during the cleanup of the britannic trying to light the old boiler so it could explode and blow up the ship, Jessica nd osnard fight, he is killed when the rotten steam pipe explodes .
Click to expand...
How could it explode if the boiler wasn't lit? Why didn't she just tell the military and let them deal with Andrew? At this point it just feels like a comic book or grindhouse film--bosomy lesbo action with some kickass martial arts to kill the bad guy with over-the-top set up.
It's all over. Jessica and sarah find the lost documents togeather in a cave and then supervise the restoration of the britannic
Click to expand...
What? Lost documents in a cave? Why didn't Jessica or Andrew go to the cave in the first place? :huh:
For me, this is where it all becomes a giant palm slap to the forehead.
a year later the ship is beautifully restored and she sails out into the open sea for the first time in 98 years!.
THE END
Click to expand...
And this is important why? That many years under the sea, it has outdated technology and is probably badly damaged. More likely it would be made into scrap metal. If it had been worth salvaging, it would have been done. All the murders were because ...? It would have been easier for Andrew to let them succeed then destroy the recovered documents.

It is much better than the last version. There is more of a story line (a la Rayw's cheat sheet) but it still feels rather contrived and piecemeal. This draft is more cohesive but there are plot holes that need to be addressed. On to version three. ;) Good luck.
 
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Yeah the Website did some random stuff like put in "He" or the good boy.

The main charachter is a girl. To be honest I'm still working out the plot and charachter details....

The third act involving raising the britannic in the first script I wrote (without a treatment) was the only good part. I dont want to be like Skyline and waste the runtime not developing charchters instead of focusing on action and keeping the movie confined to a limited space.

I liked skyline as a quick turn off your brain type movie but they could have expanded on who the people were a bit more. Jumper and Dylan dog were the same way. Entertaining but bland..

As for the boiler, I was trying to find a way to kill the villain in a unique way..
 
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