Aloha, film student's Mom needs advice

M

Mom

Aloha All,

My daughter just got accepted to Chapman Film MFA Production Cinematography Emphasis and also to University of Sussex (United Kingdom) MA Digital Documentary program. Mom wants to be able to give good advice as she decides which way to go.

Does anyone know about the Sussex program? How well is it (or a degree from a UK film school) perceived? Know any grads? If she goes there she has an MA and a short documentary film in one year, finishes debt free, but probably only has contacts at BBC.

If she goes to Chapman she gets a more extensive technical education, finishes in three years with about $120,000 debt, a short film and credits on a few student films, and hopefully contacts in Hollywood/US film circles. Is it really worth the extra time and money?

She wants to make NatGeo Explorer type documentaries and also culturally significant narrative films. Which way would you go if you could do it over starting with her choices? Her web site is www.mahinamoon.com which has a bio with more about her.

Is the work more stable in documentary TV/film?

Thanks for helping me be an informed, good Mom.
 
"finishes in three years with about $120,000 debt"

I could make 6 quality feature films with this type of money.

But ma'am, if this type of money gives your lovely daughter a quality education, and if she applies herself on a professional level, I say let her do it.

The world needs good filmmakers, whether it be documentary or otherwise.
 
While I'm all for getting an education (I'm a dad with 18 and eight year old daughters) making a living in the entertainment industry is TOUGH. I know, I've been doing it in one form or another for almost 40 years. I was very fortunate; I was a bit of a musical prodigy and started working professionally at the age of 12, I had several fantastic teachers & mentors, and I had a skill (piano, organ & other keyboards) that was highly in demand. Even still, I was 25 before I could support myself, it took a lot of time away from my family and still does.

A couple of lessons I learned; always keep an open mind. I ended up following a different career path when I was fortunate enough to have a long conversation with a music legend. I was always a "hard/prog rocker" and ended up playing some of the most prestigious venues in the US as the musical director of an oldies (50's) band, which would have horrified me when I started out to be a "rock star". When arthritis curtailed my performing career I went into music engineering and most of the time I hated it. On the recommendation of an instructor with very impressive credits to his name (I went for my Pro Tools certification) I migrated to audio post. Sound for picture was a career I had never considered, but am now almost nine years into owning my own modest audio post facility. I'm more of a learn-by-doing type and never went to college, although I attended seminars (and still do), etc., have been able to kibitz with some truly talented people and have observed award winners in action.

My own suggestion would be for your daughter to take a year or two off from formal schooling and dive in head-first with an interning position and/or doing as much freebie work as possible. If she is very lucky and very talented she will start her journey up the ladder, and at the least will learn what she has to learn before starting school. Others will recommend going to right to school which is another good way to go; you make contacts with your peers and the staff and come out with a solid technical foundation. One of the most important things I have discovered is that the teacher is the most important thing. Just because they have a famous name does not make them a good teacher, and a great teacher may not have a famous name.

So, to sum up, it takes talent, enormous amounts of hard work, a solid network, enormous amounts of hard work, patience, enormous amounts of hard work, persistence, enormous amounts of hard work and luck. Have a long talk with her, and have her participate in forums like this and attend seminars, trade shows & networking events to gain some perspective.

Good Luck!!!
 
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Welcome Mom!

Your daughter already has her bachelor's, so has, in effect, experienced *college life*. I've checked out her site and she has an exquisite eye for composition of the formal qualities within a frame. She is already an 'artist'. I do not know of the reputation of either school you've referenced, but keep in mind prospective employers or funding sources would be interested in her aesthetic as well as her technique. Bottom line, she seems to need particular schooling with the tools of the trade....I don't know if I'd personally accumulate 120,000 debt to do so. She can buy equipment and software, read tutorials, go out and film and experiment. If she feels she needs a school-based curriculum, I'd say go with the Sussex program where she'd end up debt free, and possible connections with the BBC.

I must commend you on being such a supportive mother! My mom didn't bat an eyeball when I told her I was taking the fine arts path, she encouraged it fully. :)
 
I would die to get into those programs. Sounds like a great opportunity and she would be a fool not to take that chance to excel. I may receive some flak for this but I am going to say it anyway-

You should really pose this question on the Cinematographer's Mailing List. It is chopped full of people in the industry from all over the world who have attended programs like this. Hopefully they may be able to give you some advice as to which school would be the best. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks & please keep the advice coming

Aloha All,

Thanks for your input and please keep the advice coming. I'd really like to know if anyone has any experience with the Sussex program and Chapman program.

Bird, a special thank you for visiting Heather's web site and your compliments. We also think she has "the eye" for cinematography /photography and we want to be supportive parents. i do not want her to limit her choice solely on the cost factor, and I see your point...for the same $120 K cost of grad school, she could buy a lot of equipment and make some films.

Mahalo,
Mom
 
The film school sounds like a wonderful opportunity, but 120,000 is a lot of money (for me anyway).

I like the idea Alcove Audio suggested. If she can, take some time off, intern, see what it's like to actually work in the business. It's one thing to do your own films, but being in a studio would be a different animal, and would be able to tell her if that is her path, and whether the 120,000 spent now for education is better, or maybe buying some equipment and taking another film school opportunity elsewhere. If she gets a chance to do both some stuff herself and interning somewhere, and gets a good feel where her "comfort" level is, it gives you more information to make a decision.

I think it's wonderful that you are taking an interest in your daughter's choices and wanting to learn more about it. Would that more parents would do that, whatever field they go into. :)
 
Mom said:
Bird, a special thank you for visiting Heather's web site and your compliments. We also think she has "the eye" for cinematography /photography and we want to be supportive parents. i do not want her to limit her choice solely on the cost factor, and I see your point...for the same $120 K cost of grad school, she could buy a lot of equipment and make some films.

Mahalo,
Mom
Click to expand...

I wish her the best and I'm sure with parents such as yourselves, that will happen.:)
 
I wouldnt know what to do. Its a tough choice. Having had no formal film film education myself (instead my parents had me get a business degree), i sometimes wish id gone to film school. But then after making the couple of the shorts ive made, i feel even though it was harder to learn what i could by myself, did not miss out on 2 much.

I'd say if your daughter wants to work for big film companies then have her go get the eduation. If she wants to make independant films, have her take cheaper courses in the states and invest the rest in shorts and later films. The cheaper courses will give her the technical knowledge she needs and the rest will then be up to her talent.

like i said, for me, its a very tough choice.

Goodluck with whatever you decide! I hope to see some of her work here sometime!

PS

Another thing id like to add is dont let her wait to get her education before making something. Spend 500 on a camera and she can start practicing now.
 
What Alcove said. I'm an NYFA graduate. Having that education under my belt has scored me exactly Zilch.

On the other hand, for the past eight years I've been volunteering, interning, apprenticing, and, just recently, actually working for, LAByrinth Theater Company in nyc (I'm their webmaster).

Ya, I know, it's Theater, but they are just chock full of Film people... mostly actors and writers perfecting and honing their craft, but techie people too (lights, sound, etc.) My time spent at LAB has opened more doors and put me in touch with more people than the time and money I spent at NYFA.

Like anything, it's not so much What you know as Who you know, ya know?

Institutes of higher education are places to practice your craft and have it peer reviewed... at a price.

Volunteering, interning, and apprenticing is another way to do that.... at a different price.... usually one that is more spendy in Time than in Cash...

True, schools usually let you jump in and start doing "that thing" that you really really really want to do Right Now (which if very appealing to younger folks) but they seldom afford the opportunity to develop deep and lasting relationships with folks already in the industry who can Seriously help you out down the road a ways...

*shrugs*

two cents from a newbie, not worth squat after taxes, but there have it.

keep 'em flying
twj
 
As some of the more experienced posters have said; a film degree doesn't mean too much in the film world. It's about connections, and no sleep.
 
I don't know anything about film school (I went to university for Engineering and now make films on the side for fun) but $120,000 sounds to me like a LOT OF MONEY for a film degree (or any degree for that matter). I'd pick the 1 year course over the 3 year unless the longer and more expensive course was going to guarantee me a good job for excellent money.

Like others have said above, for that money she could make a couple documentaries, which I tend to agree is likely more useful then learning how to make documentaries. I'm sure schooling will help one learn how do many things but so can holding a camera and shooting (and from the sounds of it the latter is less expensive option). I myself took a 1 day workshop on what is needed to make a no-budget feature film, and now I'm doing just that (well a short first to whet my appetite).

From her website I can see that she already takes excellent photos so I'm sure going from photos to video won't be that hard (that is exactly what I'm doing right now).

I am far from being knowledgeable as I am just starting out on this, and after a few shorts and a feature I may ring a different story and advice; but being in debt $120K just sounds like a big number to me for a diploma/degree.
 
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