Airsoft/BB guns for prop guns -- yeah or nah?

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NatalieOshea

I'm planning on having guns and shooting in my indie film.

I would like to have Airsoft or BB guns that resemble high-quality firearms in the film and just remove the orange tips at the barrel in order to save production funds as blank guns would probably be more expensive. I do like when a gun is fired, you see smoke coming out of the weapon as well as that little explosion right in front of the barrel.

One of the guns I wanted to use in the film were the chromed Beretta 92 FS or the Taurus PT 92. Watching some shooting action of the airsoft version, I've noticed how the blowback slide goes backward toward the shooter when being fired. You will notice it. Then, I've watched videos of the firearm version of the same weapon and no matter how closely you try to watch you don't see the slide go back, just the whole weapon coiling upward.

If any of you watch or keep up with ABC's daytime drama General Hospital, you'll come to notice how the character Jason Morgan's weapon of choice is the Beretta 92 fs or the Taurus PT92... the chromed version. When he fires this weapon, you can't see the slide go back toward him, all you see is smoke coming out of it and a bit of an explosion from the gun. So on General Hospital, they must be using some high-quality blanks.

What would you guys suggest? Shall I buy BB guns or go the extra mile and get blanks? I do want my film to look nice and not to... amateur even though this is my first indie project.

Natalie O'Shea
 
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There are LOTS of discussions on this and information on how to pull it off convincingly.

Airsoft is a great budget way to go.

Nobody will advise you to use blanks without a proper pyro licensee on set, even then most movie weapons aren't guns with blanks, but specific non-firing models.

Most people aren't going to be looking for exact blowback and what not unless you point it out. Most people won't notice exact weapons midels unless again you point them out. Weven when using blanks, it's all typically embellished with VFX, so VFX with airsoft is a legit way to go. You can add smoke and flash pretty easily.

Coming from experience. We've used a lot of airsoft on set with great results. Remember, anyone seeing your set will think it's a real gun from far off. Always treat the shoot and location that way, don't just show up in a public place and go to town.
 
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Don't fool with blank firing weapons.

Airsoft is the entry-level way to go.
You'll direct your actors to "fake recoil" then add in the flash + shell ejection + smoke + blood (if any) in post.

Google videos for "adding muzzle flash in after effects."

GL!
 
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I've used blanks and airsoft before, They both work. For blanks you'll need a trained adviser on set to teach all the actors and part of the crew how to properly handle them. If working correctly to the safety guidance, there is no way to get hurt by blanks or to even put live ammo in the magazines (It doesn't fit). Without the proper guidance though, people may get injured. Don't do it without someone that knows what he's doing.

If you're going the arisoft route, don't just learn how to add muzzle flashes through the basic tutorials on the internet. See how they look in real life so you can properly sell the effect and not make it look like misuse of stock-footage. Perhaps go to a shooting range with your cameraman and even actors if you have the budget. Film your time there and get the feeling of using a live weapon.
 
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DeJager said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielassault
there is no way to get hurt by blanks


"If working correctly to the safety guidance, there is no way to get hurt by blanks..."

You forgot to read the whole sentence...
Click to expand...

I didn't forget, but to say a blanket "no way to get hurt" about something exploding in a little chamber in your hand... is as equally ignoring the whole picture, I feel. I'm sure there are other non-fatal incidents of things going wrong.

With the CO2 options available though, there's less and less reason to risk it.

IDK. My opinion I guess.

CraigL
 
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Go the safer route and use airsoft. If you don't want to see it blow back, then don't put CO2 in it. The explosion that you mention is called muzzle flash, which is something you will put in during post.

But why are you wanting the same exact guns as General Hospital? Do you have an extreme affinity for that character or something?

Beretta m92 are pretty common though (standard military issue side arm currently) but there are heaps upon heaps of different weapons out there to choose from. I often have my characters carry 1911's. And there are plenty of replicas for them.
 
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The reason that you don't notice the slide recoil on real semi-auto pistols is that the action happens too fast to see. I have fired thousands of rounds through 92FSs and have an intimate knowledge of those weapons. On AirSoft slide is noticeable because it is slow. For cheap prop handguns, I would recommend simulated revolvers. The only effect that you have to add is the muzzle flashes.
 
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Keep in mind that generally, Airsoft guns modded to have the orange tips taken off become classified the same as any other weapon replica, and at the very least you generally have to alert the local authorities, lest your nextdoor neighbour see such weapons and hear the screams of terror from the actress, think it's real and you then have your door busted down by the police... (that actually happened)
 
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CraigL said:
I didn't forget, but to say a blanket "no way to get hurt" about something exploding in a little chamber in your hand... is as equally ignoring the whole picture, I feel. I'm sure there are other non-fatal incidents of things going wrong.

With the CO2 options available though, there's less and less reason to risk it.

IDK. My opinion I guess.

CraigL
Click to expand...

I understand why you would believe it could be a risk, however, I'm talking from experience. There are specific guidelines for safety which are very strict and go over what really needs to be done to keep safe just in case someone goes over the boarder of what you shouldn't do. I have 3 years of military experience and know enough about the way that many different weapons work. Problems will happen if people don't follow the safety guidance; load the bullets in themselves, mess around with the weapons, not stand far enough from the subject being shot and shoot in a closed space to make their ears ring and more. I would imagine working with stunt doubles is more dangerous or even riding a horse. Blanks aren't more dangerous than driving a car and ramming it into something for an effect.
 
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First call... local law enforcement non-emergency number to ask what the specific laws in your area are. Real cops have real guns and will really shoot you if you're pointing a gun looking thing at them. So, each time you're on set, call the cops before the gun comes out and when it gets put away again. Limit your exposure and make sure the cops are part of the process.

Blanks may not be able to kill you, but they'll blind you pretty easily... and burn you, so blanks without proper safety personell and training is gambling with your cast/crew's safety.
 
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CraigL said:
I didn't forget, but to say a blanket "no way to get hurt" about something exploding in a little chamber in your hand... is as equally ignoring the whole picture, I feel. I'm sure there are other non-fatal incidents of things going wrong.
Click to expand...
Are you as afraid of cars blowing up? After all, it's an explosive liquid being poured into several little chambers and exploded.

Saying "if you follow directions there's no way to get hurt" might be a slight exaggeration, but only slight. I mean, maybe the sound from the blank could deflect a butterfly flapping its wings, causing air waves that alter the course of a meteor which strikes an antenna which causes someone watching to big game to jump up and yell, scaring the birds outside that fly by and crap in your talent's eye. I suppose that's one way you could get hurt due to blanks.

But otherwise, it's mostly accurate. If you follow expert safety instructions properly, you're not going to get hurt, nor will you hurt anyone else.

knightly said:
Blanks may not be able to kill you, but they'll blind you pretty easily... and burn you, so blanks without proper safety personell and training is gambling with your cast/crew's safety.
Click to expand...
We mostly agree, except that blanks can indeed kill you if used improperly. They can blind or deafen you, too. If you don't have a pro safety instructor present, don't even break out a real gun on set -- or even a real knife.

And I do agree with making sure the local cops know you're shooting a movie, even when using fake guns. Of course, this might put you on the radar of "show me your permits" which most cities require.
 
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You're going to shoot your eye out!

You're going to shoot your eye out!

Nya na-na na nyah-nyah!

You're going to shoot your eye out!

a-christmas-story-bb-rifle2.jpg
 
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stef said:
Are you as afraid of cars blowing up? After all, it's an explosive liquid being poured into several little chambers and exploded.
Click to expand...

:huh:

Actually, it does happen. It's called an accident. Even with all the safety procedures followed sometimes.

You are welcome to be as facetious as you want, and consider them perfectly safe if all the rules are followed. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

But they are dangerous, and that can never, ever be forgotten. If I ever found the need to use them, anyone who told me there was no way to get hurt from them would get sent off the set until we were finished, no matter how they tried to qualify the statement.

Anyway, I'll just move along now, I promise.

CraigL
 
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From what I know of Airsoft guns is that they have a likkle nodule on the spring in the magazine that trips a switch on the main gun when it is empty. On some guns it will cause the slide to stay back and await the next magazine. Taping that down or better still, disassembling the magazine and removing the nodule will allow the gun to keep firing.
 
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When my team and I were making my first short film BROKEN we really wanted to have functional and professional looking guns for the project.

Obviously we weren’t going to use real guns and getting our hands on working prop guns was too cost prohibited. We knew we could create some bad ass muzzle flashes in visual effects but I wanted to have some practical guns on set, that had blow back, to enhance the VFX and ultimately make the guns fights look real.

Watch the video below to get all the details.

http://www.indiefilmhustle.com/ifhtv-prop-guns-for-your-film/

TIPS-GUNS.jpg


Alex Ferrari

Indie Film Hustle
www.indiefilmhustle.com

Become a Fan: www.facebook.com/indiefilmhustle
 
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