Advice on a budget plan for indie cinematic experience

[THE BOSSMAN]

Hello guys, first time poster...found this site a few days ago, and you guys have a tons of information to sort through. Really great Site!

I have been researching for a few months about transitioning into making my first feature, and hopefully more in the future. I have been writing off and on for about 5 to 7 years...and I finally have the time to try to take a chance at it. I have written a few scripts, with lower budgets in mind, and looking to see what is the best cost effective plan to get the ball rolling.

I have a 20,000 budget I set aside for a Camera body, lenses, Audio, lighting, editing(post production), gear etc.....The other option is to rent a red epic package with the lenses off borrowlenses.com...But I'm leaning toward investing my money in stuff I can own, and resale later if need be.

The camera's that have my interest at the moment are the Black magic 4k, Canon C100, or Canon 5D Mark 3. If any of you guys have experience with these cameras, I would like to know which one of these do you think will be a more sound investment for now and the future(2 to 3 years). Or if it's another camera I may be missing out on, with a great upside.

The second question is lenses. I'm looking into a 15mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm...& possible up to 200mm(zoom). Here is where I have to be careful on budget. I figure if I'm spending 3 to 6000 on a camera. I have about 8 to 10,000 for lenses. I want the best lenses, and also would like a variety to get different types of shots. I'm interested in a Zeiss compact prime 15mm & 28mm lens. But with the price being 5,000...I don't know which wide angle lens focal lenth I would actually use more, when shooting a film. Would I even need a 15mm lens? or would 28mm be wide enough, that I would get more use out of it. I'm also interested in canon L lenses. I'm also intersted in some of the lower budget lenses, and if they offer close to the same quality as the big names. I guess If any of you guys could get me some advice on what lenses you would get if you had a budget of 10,000 for lenses, that would be great. Image quality is everything for me.

Next up is Audio & lighting. I know these are very important aspects, but I am totally confused on the best approach to take. I know I need to invest in a seperate form of audio if I'm using the Dslr. But where do I start? What do I need? I want my film to look professional, and sound professional. What kind of cost am I looking at for a great audio experience? The same with lighting....what cost am I looking at for making my film look professional with clean imagery.

On hiring a editor...what cost am I looking at, for a editor or anything involving post production? Would I be better served, learning this myself? The black magic 4k comes with resolve...would Adobe premiere pro be better to just invest in, and try to learn it myself? I am not opposed to hiring someone on that end, so anybody that has hired a editor,(not a big budget hollywood type) that could inform me, would be greatly appreciated.

Finally...I am looking for someone to shoot my film. So I won't be the one holding the camera. But ideally I would like to hire a Dp that has his own rig, and that can do most things, or has a small crew...but am I asking too much for that? Would I need to invest in the tripod, steady cam, etc. Or Do Dp's usually have their own equipment? I have thought about renting all of this stuff(Camera & lenses as well), but at the end of the day...I would like to own a lot of these things. My wife has taken a interest in professional photography & fashion, So in my opinion it is worth the investment. I would like to see if any of you guys with more experience have any sound advice, on what I would need to make the film look, sound, & feel like a actual cinematic hollywood movie if I used a Dslr instead of renting the Red epic.

Thanks

 

[rayw]

You should read this thread: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=44510
And watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFbGDtlaNTQ

And start building your audience and cultivating a fiscally supportive following along this sort of timeline:

Because marketing your film is arguably MORE IMPORTANT than making the film ← which is really the only fun part of filmmaking.

 

[Alcove Audio]

If you do have the 20k budget (GBP or US$???) my recommendation is to retain people (DP, PSM) who have the gear. They know it intimately, so they will get the best out of it - probably much better than you can - and there's no learning curve for you and one less worry. Spend the rest of your production funds (after permits, props, etc.) on treating your cast and crew like the professionals they aspire to be.

Don't forget someone to do the audio post.

And don't forget... Preproduce, preproduce, preproduce, preproduce, preproduce, preproduce, preproduce, preproduce. Then go back and preproduce, some more.

 

[mlesemann]

^^What Alcove Audio said

 

[directorik]

Finally...I am looking for someone to shoot my film. So I won't be the one holding the camera. But ideally I would like to hire a Dp that has his own rig, and that can do most things, or has a small crew...but am I asking too much for that?

This is how you budget your movie. You hire people who own the
gear. You should not buy equipment. Spend your budget on the skilled
people and not on the equipment.

But I'm leaning toward investing my money in stuff I can own, and resale later if need be.

You don't know enough about the needed equipment to make a
reasonable decision. Hire people who own equipment or hire people
who will know exactly what to rent.

I know you are set on owning the equipment and I'm not going to
change your mind. My suggestion is to rent for the first one. Work
with skilled people on that first feature and learn from them. After
that film is finished, when you are ready to make your second THEN
consider buying 20,000 worth of equipment and work with the team
you have built to make the proper decisions.

 

[Sweetie]

Would I be better served, learning this myself?

If you're a director, learning editing is always a good plan. Depending on your time schedule and time demands and your inherit talent and determination will determine whether you'll be capable of good to great editing.

 

[moonshieldmedia]

I made my first feature with $12,000 which included spending $6,000 of it on the camera equipment. I would recommend spending much less than that. Put more money into paying your crew so they are committed to your project. In the end, Scheduling almost killed my film.

 

[Maurice]

But the biggest problem when trying to hire people is this. A good sound man could blow through your entire budget. I had a $20,000 budget and what I learned is when I talked to people I wanted to hire I had to accept the fact that I was making a low budget film, not a big budget Hollywood film. A DP I wanted to hire told me a feature takes 30 days, and that would fit his budget quite well. Though I wanted to step away from the camera I couldn't afford to and wore three hats again and finished the film in 14 days, thereby freeing money for canteen services and other needs. You have to accept what it is and don't let others make you believe you have a million dollar budget, and do the best you can with what you have. Don't let DPs and sound men drive your budget and time, have your own criteria and drive everything to that end.

I had one actor whom I felt was going to be big in Hollywood and he could disappear after a call from Hollywood any day. So I scheduled an all-nighter and we worked 15 hours to get everything we needed from him. Since then, he has appeared in THE MIST and now has a recurring role on The Young and The Restless.

Yes my film could have been better but I make a decision to do the film or not do it with what I have. I could have bought a Mercedes if I had the money but I had to settle for a Ford.

 

[THE BOSSMAN]

I want to thank everyone who took the time out to post, you have given me a lot of things to think about. Maurice i want to thanks you as well for giving a another perspective on my question.

 

[jax_rox]

I had one actor whom I felt was going to be big in Hollywood and he could disappear after a call from Hollywood any day. So I scheduled an all-nighter and we worked 15 hours to get everything we needed from him. Since then, he has appeared in THE MIST and now has a recurring role on The Young and The Restless.

Oh wow - a 15 hour night?! You're lucky he didn't walk off!


A $20k budget is damn low, but that doesn't mean you can't get good deals, and still have great people working on your film, and your film ending up a lot better than if you tried to do everything yourself.

A good script helps. People are more likely to jump on board for less money if you have an awesome script and they like you, and you're able to be professional.

You could easily spend $20k+ just on your camera kit for a feature. My suggestion would be to find a DP whose work you like, who either:

a) has his own equipment and is willing to work within your budget to provide that equipment

or

b) doesn't have equipment, but has great work and is willing to work for less money in order to get a better camera kit rented.

Up-and-comers are more likely to be the ones you'll want to work with. AC's who are trying desperately to shoot as much as possible to become a DP full time. Boom Swingers who own some of their equipment and want to transition to sound recording. Best Boys who have started acquiring their own gear in order to soon become a Gaffer. etc.

This will help you a lot. With a good Producer, and some big favours, you could easily get some awesome people and great equipment on the small budget you have.

This allows you to be the Director. Make sure you spend a bit of money on the Production Design.

With a bit (or a lot) of savvy, you can make an awesome feature for $20k.

I've known an incredibly savvy Producer who made an awesome feature with a full crew for $50k. I also know of a guy who has already spent $250k on his 'debut feature' and is still struggling to find someone to edit it, let alone see it through any other aspects of post, distribution etc. - the principal photography wrapped nearly two years ago.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I would like to see if any of you guys with more experience have any sound advice, on what I would need to make the film look, sound, & feel like a actual cinematic hollywood movie if I used a Dslr instead of renting the Red epic.

Yes, to start with, a budget about 100 times larger than the one you've got! You have to realise that Hollywood standard movies cost millions, tens of millions or even hundreds of millions to make. Commercial filmmakers spend these amounts because that's what it costs and if it were possible to make Hollywood standard movies for £20k then that's exactly what they'd be doing (to maximise profit). So, if even the most experienced top professionals can't make a Hollywood standard movie for anywhere near £20k what are the chances you will be able to?

As others have basically said, being able to buy some filmmaking equipment is only a small part of the filmmaking equation. As with furniture making, having decent tools is a prerequisite but what ultimately defines if a finished piece of furniture is any good or not, is not the quality of the tools but the experience, skill and talent of the carpenter/cabinet maker using those tools. So, I second (or third) the suggestion to surround yourself with as much experienced talent as you can, which will be a challenge because your budget would hardly cover the cost of one experienced professional and you really need whole teams of them.

None of this is to say that you can't make a movie for £20k and potentially even a fairly decent little movie but I think maybe you need to be a little more realistic about your goals/expectations of achieving the look/sound/feel of an actual cinematic Hollywood movie.

G

 

[trueindie]

Bossman,
Before you spend £20k on whatever it is you think or others suggest are the "best" lenses or equipment, write a 5 minute short and shoot it. Hire people with equipment, audio, video and lighting, and actors and shoot it. Spend 500 pounds or a thousand. See if you get what you thought you wanted. In filmmaking, it's very easy to get into your car thinking you're going to drive to Harrods, and then you end up at Boots. You may find some of the same things, but Boots is not exactly Harrods. Try to see if you can get to Harrods every time.

Equipment won't save you. A good crew will. Identify a capable dp, and audio guy. Even better if you can identify a capable dp and an audio person with equipment. Then make your short. See if they take you to Harrods, or anywhere close. Then you are ready to make your movie. And then you can decide what equipment you want to buy and what equipment you can live without.

Cheers,
Aveek