A Quick Note: Quality Needed for Festivals

WideShot

WideShot

After showing The Soup Party at a few festivals and being on the crew for several other films that have gone, let me give a little heads up to those who are planning their premiere films and thinking about festivals.

Firstly, yes there is a lot of crap at festivals in terms of story and body of films. But thats not as consequential as the actual visual and audio quality of films. From what Ive learned from those in charge of submissions to major fests (and consequently smaller fests), the actual asthetics of the film are the most important, followed by time and then story/content.

See, the festival has to choose a film because they can see themselves showing it in a cinema in front of people who paid for a ticket to see it. Thats it in a nutshell. It doesn't have to be genius, it just has to look and sound good to pass the first test. SO DON'T SKIMP ON EITHER. Spend the time recording nice images and sound. Spend the time in post maximizing visual and audio levels and quality. That is the ticket to getting in.

The next thing you need to consider is time constraints. The tighter you can make your film, the better. A 6 minute short has a helluva lot better chance of getting in than a 15 minute. 20 minutes is pushing it. 30 minutes is very very very rare for a fest. a 1h30m feature has a LOT better chance of getting in than a 4 hr feature that drags and drags and drags (because the director just couldnt part with the 14 seperate shots of the main character staring off into space in a moment of reflection). It just comes down to how much can a programmer cram into a fest in the short 1-4 hour slot at each cinema?

Finally, the quality of the story, the thing we preach is the most important (and believe me it is aside from getting into fests), really has very little to do with getting in to most fests. It just has to fit the desired rating/genre of the submission --- the screening commitees are not there to judge only to ask themselves what is showable. The judges are for judging.

Now Im not saying skimp in any of these areas here. Heck, do a great all around film and chances are itll get in and maybe even win. But do yourself a major favor, dont record that film on a hi8 using the oncamera mic.
 
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Hey, maybe you can answer a question for me wideshot.

What exactly are the different categories of film lengths. Is it just the short and the feature?

For example, as a writer I can tell you the word lengths separating the short story, novella, novel, etc. It's a defined length. But it seems to me in filmmaking that there's just the short and the feature. and that the middle is undefined.

You said, "A 6 minute short has a helluva lot better chance of getting in than a 15 minute."

So lets say I write a short. We'll call it "Thug." Big burly man gets physically abused by his small wife. Takes six or seven minutes.

And then there's a feature. We'll call that "O-toco" and it's about the travels of a young writer on his first assignment to find the best taco joint in the city. (I know, it sounds stupid but I'm making things up off the top of my head.) That's an hour and a half.

Well, what if you have an idea that can only be made in the middle. Say, within forty-five minutes to an hour. That if it was too short it wouldn't sense and if it's too long it would just drag on? Is it just a dead duck?

See, I had an idea for a screenplay this weekend. A modern adaptation of a play by Edmund Rostand. Don Juan makes a deal with the devil to escape hell for a year by sacrificing any chance for redemption.

Now, I can't see draging that out for an hour and a half. It's a short play in three acts (Really two) with only a few major scenes. But I still think it's a great idea and I may want to try writing it. And then maybe try to find someone to fill it. Am I just out of luck? Or should I focus on adapting it as a feature?
 
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Features always do better than shorts, because they can be more easliy picked up and distributed, while shorts are more likely to hit compilations, or just sit on your demo reel. A good short can get you attention and funding for a feature. I'm pretty sure a short can go anywhere up to 45min, and crossing that line makes it a feature. If your story won't go that long without filler, go back and think... there are always things to add... characterization, sub-plots, foreshadows, back-story, musical filler (if it fits well), obstacles... if you can pick just 2 of those I'm sure you can slap another 15mins on top, and go for the hour running time, which is still nice and short for a feature.

See, we have this behemoth 2hr feature in post right now, and we're hoping it can get into some fesitivals... there may be some in depth cutting if we can't.. we'll see.
 
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Spatula pretty much nailed it. My personal advice at this point is dont make an in between project, either stretch it to a feature, whicha s a screenwriter you should be able to do, or cut it to under 20 minutes for a short. If its only a few major scenes you can maybe even squeeze it to under 10 minutes?

And no, chances are you wont make any money off your short. A feature yes, a short no. If you get real clever with your marketing you might be able to sell enough DVDs to make back your budget, or something similar.
 
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Spatula said:
there are always things to add...
Click to expand...

Yes, there are always things that can be added, but it doesn't necessarily make for a better story.. if the story is complete within a 60minute timeframe, either submit it as a shorter length feature, OR cut the story down so that it works as a short. You're always better off cutting, than adding. It happens all the time, which is the reason there are deleted scenes on most DVDs that come out these days, because there's so much extra that when you finally start cutting the film together you realize the story works just as well or even better without that extra 20 minutes of exposition.

Also it's interesting to note that there will always be a pretty significant change from the words on paper to the images on the screen versions of the story. Even if you are the writer, likely you'll discover (if not during production, whilst editing or watching your first rough-edit) that you don't need to use all of what was written. You must be willing to sacrifice your favorite bits of writing to best serve the story. If the witty comment from your protagonist as he quits his job is your favorite line, great, but if it doesn't advance the story, and it comes down to a time issue, cut it and go without.. you'll still have it shot to be used for your "directors cut" version or deleted/extra scenes ..

The best thing to keep in mind when working on a film, especially a short, and most importantly during the editing process (unless you're actually shooting on film, which costs so much more...), is to first, make sure every image on the screen serves and advances the story, and secondly, get into each scene as late as possible, and out as quick as possible. In a short film, we don't have time to watch uncle Jed walk across the room for 2 minutes... you're better off telling it in the cut. Show him begin his long journey across your living room, then maybe do a cut away to someone waiting for him .. .cut back, showing him further across the room, and back more waiting, or someone else, etc.. so an otherwise 2 minute sequence can take 20 or 30 seconds of screen time.

Ultimately, remember that film is an experiential medium. It's subjective. A perfect visual example of Einsteins theory of relativity. A feature film can encompass all of an hour or less of story time in a two hour segment of screen time, or many years in a single cut. Time is relative, in film and in real life. Example, spending hours with a significant other can feel like a few minutes, but sitting on a hot burner on the stove for a few minutes will definately feel like an eternity.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Tell your story in the most effective way possible, and keep in mind when submitting to a festival that people will be paying to see your film if it's accepted. Ask yourself (even if it's a 30 second short) would you feel cheated paying $10 to see it? Would your mother, cousin, boss? Ok, maybe $10 for a 30 second short is a bit drastic, but you get the idea. ;)

(Also, keep in mind for features, that while the longer features are becoming more commonplace again in recent years, typically for the last 5 years or so the average length has been around 97minutes or so.. :D)
 
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...I think this is an interesting thread and I have a question....

What constitutes a 'short'? I have a 5:30 promo that I did as a dry run for the doc I want to shoot. I edited it, the band loved it, which is really rewarding and encouraging....

You must be willing to sacrifice your favorite bits of writing to best serve the story
Click to expand...
.

...there were things that I wanted to keep in but we needed it to be about 5 minutes so :tear: I cut it back to 5:30 because it just had to go. My question is: can I enter something like this into a festival? I mean, it was pretty much a 'let's see' type of thing for me... I don't know if I can enter it or not, or if I should or not... uh, what do I do?...

--spinner :cool:
 
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Enter it in a shorts festival. I'm sure some will take it! Just depends on how good it is. If people like to watch it (distant friends that you see once in a while are good for this test) then there stands no reason it would be excluded from a festival. :)
 
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...well, the point of the promo was to get a feel for doing the actual film. For me it was the whole point, for the band (of which my brother is a member), well, they are very serious and working in Chicago and their attitude was: If its good we'll use it, if not then the lead singers sister gets to get her feet wet. I don't think that they were expecting it to have come out the way it did. Their only complaint was it was too short. 5:30min.

...as for me, though I think it could use some tweaking, (which I can't do right now, because the equipment we used was borrowed,) but I want to get an idea of what people outside my family thinks of it. So Detroit Docs, here it comes....

--spinner
 
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Have just finished helping select 100+ shorts from 750+ submissions...

... I find this an interesting thread.

Wideshot and Spatula know the score. At the festival where I work, we will have 6 main shorts programs and a few other special shorts presentations. Each collection is only 80min long and could not sustain more that one film above 15min. Unfortunately, many of the best submissions, in terms of prod. values, tend to be over 11mins (I guess if you're gonna spend coin, you want your money's worth!) so the competition is tough and these films have to blow us away. For twenty minute films, we'll watch the first 7min and if we haven't noticed the time go by and have to keep watching we'll finish. Then we'll consider if it is worth the two or three other films that could have played in its place...

But then, some festivals screen differently than us and can build programs around 45min projects, by coupling them with a few other shorter projects. If the film is truely good, there are festivals that will play it.

Best bet is, as with anything, to do your research - find out what festivals you are interested in are screening.

Finally, don't be discouraged if you don't have the resources to make high end film shorts - just own your limitations! There are ways of using any medium to its fullest advantage and creating something great. If you have a top-of-the-line camera, maybe you can pull off the 15 second fade on the sunset painted landscape - if not, don't try. Please. Neither myself or my paying audience is willing to look for what you were trying to do - we only see what you did.
On the other hand, for me, one of the best parts of our short film programming is seeing Oscar contending, big name shooting shorts screening right next to independents that more than hold their own because of the originality of their ideas, their subversion of expectations and their freedom to come out of nowhere and get a great reaction.

Sorry for the rant - it's been a long screening session...
 
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Thanks for the comments guys, especially Will and jron. I think that's what my point was. Theres a way to make a well-made production on hi8 the same as HiDef. Just don't skimp on production values, and make sure to trim as much fat out as possible.
 
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I don't understand the aversion of festivals to longer (30-60 minute) shorts. Hell, they're EASIER to program, just stick two of them together!

Last year I ran a 60 minute with a 20 minute, and built a very nice 2 hour shorts program around a 48 minute film.

Next year I'm actually planning on running a SEPARATE program for really short (under 5 minutes) films, so they don't clutter up my programs of longer shorts.
 
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What about Docs?

Great thread, that cleared up a lot for me. I was wondering though, are there different requirements for documentaries? For smaller festivals, are they lumped together with the 20 minutes and 60 minutes, or are the time categories more like 60 min and 120 min? I was just wondering if the widespread aversion to longer films (60 +) applied to documentaries as well, or if they are just all hovering around 60. I am not as well versed in festivals, so I would love the input.


Phoebz

http://www.elvisandanabelle.com
 
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Festivals are there to entertain the viewers who pay to come watch, and also to help bring more 'buzz' to the festival, and finally help raise more fund by 1. getting more sponsors when there's more people attending, 2. making $ out of viewers, 3. being able t use the statistic to solicitate grants/funding, etc.

So, it will always be best to combine shorts togther (a bunch of them) to maximize/help filmmakers out and also to let the viewers feel that what they paid is worth it.

I've helped organize at several festivals in the past and have dealt with many of them, thanks to being constantly submitting films to these festivals, you get to build an understand how they work etc.

Don't forget, festival's most of the time, (majority of them) is there to make a business or to continue to be in business so they have to find revenuws to sustain them, and having a big audience works best and have people continue enjoying watching the films shown is always big (although many film festivals recently are more into 'what politically' inclined film to make a buzz)

Anyway, hopefully some of you are going to the DP WOrkshop that I've put together for 7 years now at WVIZ/PBS this sunday (www.ohiofilms.com) we'll have film vs hd format, and Panasonic/Fletcher Chicago are sponsoring the HD format (hvx200 camera with 17" hd monitore, firestore, etc) - it's here at my place, SWEET toy to play with before sending it back to them... :)
 
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