A question of tact

So this filmmaker friend of mine wrote this piece about dreams that I thought was nice.

He said to me "I'd like you to direct it."
I said, "Okay, but I'll change some aspects of the story. I'll take out all the parts about 'hope' and make it about the death of dreams."
After some thought, after I explained it, he said "Fine."
Then I said, "I'd also like you to have a budget. At least for feeding people and for the props if you want to do it properly."
"How about $1,000?" he asked.
"Fine," I said.
He has already spent some money on props, and he will have enough for food and is doing a lot of legwork getting extras.

Now as we get nearer to the shoot, I thought it would be nice to have a crane as we discussed such shots and a dolley, since I like moving shots so much. So I just spent $1,000 including shipping and handling and import duties on these two items, of my own money.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110887004956&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300706144789&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

Now, we talk every other day about the upcoming shoot and actors and such. But we never mention the amount I just spent. He made one mention of how I will be able to continue to use my toys that I bought, but how the amount he is spending on props and food will be totally wasted. Also, this is his movie. He owns complete rights.

Here are the thoughts in my head.
1. I'm completely okay with him having all the rights. In fact I don't care about the rights, nor do I want any.
2. He mentioned wanting credit as a co-director. I didn't say anything to him, but upon some reflection I realized I didn't really care about the credits. I just wanted to be busy planning something. I still don't care about it and he can have co-director credit if he likes.
3. He also wants me to edit the thing.
4. I'm not being paid anything. He is a friend of mine, and I didn't ask him for anything.

The only thing that started bugging me in the last two days is that this is completely somebody else's project, and I just spent a thousand bucks on equipment. Granted, the reason I bought it right now, was because I wanted to use this equipment anyway. I'd rather learn to use it on someone else's project than on mine (I'm just being frank here). So in reality it's kind of a win / win for me if I'm really going to be honest about it to myself. However, I was just wondering... juuuuust wondering. If I wanted him to pay something for using my equipment and two more weeks of my time and god knows how many more hours of post, maybe I want him to chip in something monetarily for my contribution. He seems to be happily going about his business but I was thinking of bringing up some 'fees.' I kind of think it's only fair. But he might just become sad if I asked him.

He's a good guy. Generally very helpful. And I'll need him to help me out in the future with scouting for locations and such. He has a weird sort of facility about these things that I lack. He has helped me in the past also. And I've never paid him anything.

So.... should I bring up payment of any monies to me? Or should I just not bother? And if the right answer is that I should bring it up, then what is an ideal way to do so. He can definitely afford it. Unlike most filmmakers I know, he has a well paying job.
thanks
ps. apologies for the long post.
 
Working with 'friends' is hard... for this exact reason.

Been there. Not fun.

This is why - even working with friends - I do contracts. Lay it all out there before the first frame is even a sparkle in your eye. This way, there is no confusion or resentment.

Hindsight being 20\20 as it tends to be... Let's look to the 'now'. No one, on either side of the camera should change their terms in the middle of a project. This is what gets people fired. While you realize that you've probably made a mistake at this point, you should still honor your word -- whether he's your friend or not.

Now... if your friend keeps piling responsibilities on you (ones you didn't sign up for) - you are well within your right to say, "Whoa! Hold up! I want to direct this.. I want to shoot it! I want to be a part of it --- but you're drowning me. If you'd like me to provide additional services, I'm going to need some additional financial support." Be calm and reasonable when you have this conversation. Yelling or getting emotional won't help your case. Explain what the original agreement was... and how it has been altered... Tell him "To provide ____________, I'll need to spend X hours working in my studio which cost me X thousands of dollars."

The big question is this... Is there money to be made from this project? Is your friend going to make a huge deposit in the bank and leave you out of it?

For me, I'll do the rare super-cheap score if it is fun or challenging or will be a good addition to my portfolio... But if the producer is planning on making money on the film, so will I.

In short, honor your word - and expect others to do the same. When a new task pops up, so should new negotiations.

Most importantly though... Keep calm.
Good luck!
 
Working with 'friends' is hard... for this exact reason.

Been there. Not fun.

This is why - even working with friends - I do contracts. Lay it all out there before the first frame is even a sparkle in your eye. This way, there is no confusion or resentment.

Hindsight being 20\20 as it tends to be... Let's look to the 'now'. No one, on either side of the camera should change their terms in the middle of a project. This is what gets people fired. While you realize that you've probably made a mistake at this point, you should still honor your word -- whether he's your friend or not.

Now... if your friend keeps piling responsibilities on you (ones you didn't sign up for) - you are well within your right to say, "Whoa! Hold up! I want to direct this.. I want to shoot it! I want to be a part of it --- but you're drowning me. If you'd like me to provide additional services, I'm going to need some additional financial support." Be calm and reasonable when you have this conversation. Yelling or getting emotional won't help your case. Explain what the original agreement was... and how it has been altered... Tell him "To provide ____________, I'll need to spend X hours working in my studio which cost me X thousands of dollars."

The big question is this... Is there money to be made from this project? Is your friend going to make a huge deposit in the bank and leave you out of it?

For me, I'll do the rare super-cheap score if it is fun or challenging or will be a good addition to my portfolio... But if the producer is planning on making money on the film, so will I.

In short, honor your word - and expect others to do the same. When a new task pops up, so should new negotiations.

Most importantly though... Keep calm.
Good luck!

It's a short. There's no money in it.

I'm not upset at all. I was just thinking about maybe I should have put a seed in his head at some point that he should spend some money on me also. Too bad I didn't. So I was just wondering about how to put that idea into his head now.

Thanks for the response :)
 
He made one mention of how I will be able to continue to use my toys that I bought, but how the amount he is spending on props and food will be totally wasted.

I think he has a valid point here.

He spends $1,000 on food and props - money for this one movie.
You spend $1,000 on equipment you will use on several projects.

Now you’re thinking of asking him to pay a little more to cover your
equipment costs. But you will always have the equipment and you
will use in on the next five or ten or even 15 movies.

You want the total amount you each spend on this to be exactly the
same? then you need to amortize the equipment realistically over the
next five years. If you make 2 short films a year that’s 10 uses. That’s
$100 per use. So your current investment in THIS movie is $100. If
he pays $150 for food and props you owe him $25.
 
If
he pays $150 for food and props you owe him $25.

haha. very nice Rik. I agree with you. I was actually thinking of hitting him up for a couple of hundred. But that's the reason for my hesitation. I was thinking if it's only a couple of hundred, then if I ask him for favors in the future I don't want him to break down every favor into a monetary value. So maybe I should just not bother asking for anything.

Good breakdown my friend. Thanks. :)
 
Sit with him and work it out before moving one step more forward.

Remember, he never asked you to spend money. That was your idea. Don't expect any help and don't be annoyed or pissed off about it either. It was your decision to spend your money.

Stick to the deal. Period. Or smile, thank him for the time and beg off the project. It's just a project. there will be more in the future.

If you continue to do a slow burn or feel like it's just not what you agreed to, you'll probably end up just not doing a good job, or having a problem down the road...

Better to walk away now or just smile and enjoy the ride, than to lose a friend. ...assuming he is a friend and not just someone you call "friend".

cheers
geo


ps: I know lots of great people... I have very few true friends... I prefer to keep them.
 
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Take the jib and dolly out of the equation. You can't choose to spend your own money and then turn around and say that he owes you for something he didn't agree to. That would not be cool at all.

If he's asked you to do more than the original agreement, you can say that you've given it some thought and you would like to be paid for the work that's beyond the original agreement. If he doesn't want to do that, then you can say that you can give him what you originally agreed on, but that you won't be able to do the extra worked that he asked of you. You might need to back down a little here and suck up the work if it puts him in a bad spot for you to back out of it now. Then if anything else comes up that he asks of you, that's the moment to ask for a fee. He can then make a decision one way or the other. It doesn't have to be any more complicated then that.
 
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Considering you admit that you don't know how to use them and will be learning on the shoot, and also given that it was your decision to buy the equipment and it is equipment you will have sole use over for as long as you want... I would say it's pretty unfair to start charging him for equipment you decided to buy and will be learning how to use on his set.

Honestly, it sounds like a project you're both happy ti be involved in, so just shoot it. He's helped you out in the past for no pay.

If future projects and favours start to become too much, then you can say things like 'I'm busy with paid stuff so if I get a chance I'll have a look at it but unless there's money in it I can't promise anything.' I've done that before, and sometimes it's enough to get someone to cough up a couple of hundred bucks just to get it done. Better than nothing for work you were going to do for free, hey?

But for now, I'd just stick to what you're going to do, shoot the film and finish it. As you point out, it's a win-win for you anyway, without any extra cash so unless you've got other people who are wanting to pay you to hire the dolly and jib for the same time that you'll be shooting, you can't really be asking for money.
 
Just my opinion. You wrote "He has already spent some money on props, and he will have enough for food and is doing a lot of legwork getting extras." That reads to me like he's figuring a grand on everyday expenses, food, transportation etc.

You spent $1000 on equipment without asking in advance. Can you ask him for some money? Sure. Should you ask? I wouldn't. If I were going to spend a grand and expect part of it back, I'd be sure I got the OK in the first place.

Film making is just like any other business, you have to get approval from the money people before buying things.
 
Sounds like mission creep.

Project starts out as one thing, and over time it becomes something else.

Don't ask for any payment.
Don't try to turn a friendly arrangement into a business arrangement mid-project.

This is a short.
There's not going to be any revenue from it.
If the short leads to a revenue worthy feature - start at the beginning of THAT project as a professional yet friendly arrangement, meaning $$ will be exchanged for certain terms of service, including equipment budgets.

Now, if your friend really REALLY doesn't care, perhaps he'll "give you" crowdsourcing rights to keep all you can pull in.
Set up a KS/IGG account, chum the waters & shake the trees, it's all yours to do what you will.
Maybe.
Just ask for "rights."
Push come to shove - ask for a hefty percentage in lieu of project payment.
 
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:D
You guys are true filmmakers. Reading all kinds of drama into a simple question.

I'm completely okay with the arrangement. It was just a simple question of "hmmm should I ask him for anything?", not "I feel like I'm being taken advantage of." But maybe I told the story wrong, so it's probably my fault.

Anyway, all's cool. I'm getting him to budget for an editor other than myself. I already know the editor I'm going to use, so I'm delighted about that.

Georgia: To your philosophical question,... is he a friend? Well, he's definitely more than an acquaintance. But I don't think I'd "lose" him over a spat, even if we had one. He's much more mature than I tend to be, so even if I got into a spat with him, he'd handle it so it didn't get out of hand.

So everything's good. We tested out the crane and dolley. We effin' luuuuuvs it. Can't wait to use it and tell you guys all about it.
Best,
Aveek
 
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