A Cautionary Tale

Well, I've been dragged through hell on the new film over the past couple of days, so wanted to both vent and give an example to both director/producers and crew on how NOT to conduct yourself.

I am the primary Executive Producer. Of a $4000 budget, $3000 is mine. I do have one other Executive Producer, who is also my sound recordist. He was the sound recordist on my last film as well. Between that film and this one he went out got a nice Rode Shotgun, boom pole, a really nice Korg field recorder etc... So, by taking money from him as an investor I got him as a free sound recordist, ready to roll with his own gear. He is also heading up my set construction which involves dressing a cinder block wall mini storage unit with a couple of false walls to look like a bomb/fallout shelter.

Ok, the stage is set.

So yesterday morning he calls me, and tells me to buy two locks because he has rented the mini storage units. One for the set, one for makeup/dressing room/craft services, etc...

Wait I say, We're not shooting for 6 weeks, we were going to get them about 10 days before the shoot which is plenty of time for construction, and allows us to only pay 1 month rent.

Well, he says, I made an executive decision that we needed to get them now because the ones I think are the best fit might not have units available then. Oh by the way, not only do we now have to pay two months rent, but instead of $60 a month the units are $100 a month.

Hold on I say, you just TRIPLED the location budget, and you didn't consult me or the producer?

I made an executive decision. Oh, by the way they aren't in the complex we had talked about. They are in another complex in the middle of nowhere, which will be good for sound, but will require a 15 minute round trip car ride to use the bathroom.

WHOA! I say, that won't work. We have a tight shooting schedule. Shutting down for 25 minutes because the lead actress has to pee is going to be a MAJOR problem. You need to try and go get out of it right now.

He says I can't get out of it. Money has changed hands, contracts signed.

Ok, let's pause for me to say IF he was not an investor, AND a free sound man, he's fired, right there, on the spot, and not reimbursed for the storage rental, but he is.

12 hours of on and off arguing ensues, and last night I finally convince him he made a mistake, the biggest one being making a decision like that without consulting me or the producer. He says he will call this morning, and try to cancel the contract.

I get a call from him this morning, and he is back to "These are exactly what we need, you'll see, I'm not going to cancel it".

So, at this point I am forced to go with it just because the cost of hiring a soundman outweighs the costs associated with this location we have never scouted, and that not a single person associated with the film has ever even seen.

What he doesn't seem to understand is that this location COULD be perfect, and he could run sound on this film worthy of an Oscar, and I would never, ever, ever, even for a second ever consider working with him again on any level. I wouldn't hire him to run sound for me while I filmed my dog getting groomed. At this point all I can do is put on my happy face, let it go, and mentally mark him off my list of anyone I would every even consider hiring or letting invest in the future.

So, there you go, as I said, a cautionary tale about what can happen when other people invest money in your film (they think they have the authority to make decisions), and how NOT to handle yourself when you are part of a production team (going rogue).
 
be at peace

Sounds like he believes he is taking an informed risk. Right now your hot about it, but if it turns out that everything works great, that some other serendipitous magic happens because of the new location, you'll get over it.

Also it sounds like you both just agreed to write checks out of your own accounts, rather than set up a DBA account requiring TWO signatures on each check. This is the best (and I think only) way to assure that one party cant spend money without engaging the other. Sure you feel hat he spent your "common" money, but if it was in his account, well then.. its his money, not yours.

Let it ride, and don't let a friendship die over $120!

Also, maybe this will make you feel better.. having the extra time with the storage units might work out great.. my favorite movie, "Blade Runner" had such intensely dense set design in part because of other production delays that left the set crews with extra time to "play"


In my line of work we have a saying.. "tis better to beg forgiveness, than to ask permission" which is fine if you, as the soon to be beggar are right, however, if you are wrong, you might lose your job! Nothing says "dedication to an idea" like laying your job on the line!

We have another saying. "The graveyard is full of irreplaceable people"
 
I've actually settled down quite a bit. I won't say anything else about it to him, and am not that "angry" about it anymore. However, I am totally adamant that this could wind up being the location of my dreams, it could wind up looking beyond my widest expectations, and we could win awards at dozens of film festivals, and he will never be associated with any film I make in the future, ever, period. Again, if he was just my friend, and just a producer (not my free sound man) I would have fired him on the spot.

I certainly hope we can remain friends, I've known him for 20 years. That will be up to him when I start pre-production on my next film and I don't ask him to be a part of it.
 
I can certainly see points on both sides of the argument here. He did go behind your back and spend some of the funds. Big no-no. However he is absolutely right when he got them ahead of time because they "might not have units available." His thinking here is worse case senario. Your thinking is best case senario. The idea that you guys go to rent them out ten days before production starts and there aren't any left. Then your left scrambling around looking for a back up plan and the production suffers. You should know that when dealing with production you need to be thinking in worse case senario at all times to keep production from slowing down or suffering.

On a more personal note. I think the fact that you guys needed to rent out a storage unit to look like a bomb shelter screams that you were trying to get through the location scouting quick. Seems like you guys came to the conclusion that a storage unit would be ideal and didn't give anything else a chance. I bet you could have found a person's house around with an unfinished basement that would also look the same. Not to mention there would probably be a working toilet on the premises along with tons of more room for equipment and crew. But I wasn't there so I am not sure how you came to that decision.

Good luck with everything hope it all turns out well.
 
Hey, you do what you feel is best.. but may I offer an alternative point of view, please don't be offended, I only mean to help. I have typical "youngest child syndrome" I always look for peaceful resolution to conflict between others.. . I'm also a parent of 20 years..


Here is what you are saying in one sentence:
"I don't care HOW great a job you do, if you offend me in anyway, Ill never work with you again!" Is that REALLY what you mean to say?


I see it like this:

You found someone passionate and dedicated enough to his art, that he WILLINGLY pitched in his time, talent, new equipment AND $1000 to help YOU achieve your vision. That person was dedicated and committed to the project enough that he took a risk and did what he thought was best for the project. Sure he has to answer for that, and if it turns out to be a bad decision, then you BOTH learn from your mistakes and move on, but on the other hand, what if it DOES work out great?

Wouldn't you WANT someone like that by your side as you go forward to bigger things? Someone who will take the risks of offending you to improve the product?

Honestly, even if the location choice turns out to RUIN your project, I think most people here would LOVE to have someone on their team with that level of commitment.

Heck, if he lives in Oregon, can I have his contact information?

It seems to me you are demanding responsibility without giving authority. You cant do that and expect great results. If you wanted an assistant to just "do your bidding" then you should have hired one!

With only good intentions and respect..
Wheatgrinder
 
I did scout basements, and spare rooms, and garages, and old industrial sites. They don't have the look (concrete walls) I want or were too expensive (old industrial sites). What we have done is basically rent a small soundstage. There will be a constructed wall at the front covering the garage door entrance that is dressed to look like reinforced concrete, with an oval door (like a ship's door, with the large wheel lock in the middle) in it. At the rear there will be a false wall with the shelves stacked with food that has about 8" of space behind it. This wall will be moveable to be able to position the camera at that end to get some wider shots.

The larger issue is that we actually have a semi-professional producer on this film who now has lost all confidence in this person, and he is viewed by both me and her as comepletely untrustworthy. Going forward he basically won't be allowed to take a pee without prior authorization from both of us.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how the Semi-pro got the idea that he was untrustworthy? Are you saying he STOLE money from the production?

So what happens when YOU do something the semi-pro dose not like?

Did you have his role and responsibility in writing? We don't write things down just because of lawyers you know, we right things down because what we mean is very seldom what we say...

(that sounds condescending.. I don't mean to be.. )

Again, with respect and desire to help..
 
Last edited:
On one level he did steal money from the production. He spent funds that amount to roughly 10% of the budget (and were over twice the budgeted amount for that item) without informing anybody, just because at that moment he thought it was the right thing to do. He was tasked with scouting the various storage spaces to find some that looked to be a good fit, check which ones had vacancies, and report back, Not pull the trigger on the rental. When I told him he needed to go try and cancel the contract and get the money back, he basically refused. So now there is no trust factor that on the set construction (for example) he won't run out and buy materials, or start building something without it being signed off on by myself, the producer, and the art director.

We have since established a policy that nobody (not even me who is footing 80% of the budget) will spend any amount over $20 on anything related to the film without it being signed off on by both me and the producer. Of course I could just fire the producer and do whatever I want, but the point is to have a formal policy in place, and for everyone to follow it. Live and learn. All the policies and expectations weren't written down formally, and should have been. We are in the process of drafting all the contracts now as well.

The "I'll never work with him again" basically comes from the fact I am the primary Executive Producer (80% of the budget), and the director. Other people can handle things however they want on their films, but on MY film, if I tell you to do "X, you do "X", no matter what your thoughts, opinions, desires are. If you don't like that, that's fine, find another film to work on. I told him to go cancel the contract and he refused. If he was just my friend, or just an executive producer, or just the sound guy, or maybe even a combination of two of those, I would have just fired him. Lesson learned on ANYBODY being allowed to get into a role where I feel I can't fire them. Never again.
 
Last edited:
Like I said, a cautionary tale. I let myself get in a position where something like this could happen by not having formal policies in place, and discussing how things are done in detail with everyone. I certainly take part of the blame.
 
Maybe I misunderstood..

You provided $3000 towards a $4000 budget.. where did the other $1000 come from? I assumed it was from the sound guy? Maybe Im wrong?

(I reread, and yes HE did provide $1000 to the PROJECT budget.. )

So, by taking money from him as an investor
 
Last edited:
First, just let me make it PERFECTLY clear, I have no stake in this, and am probing both for my own enjoyment as well as the potential learning opportunity. But like probing a rotten tooth, its going to hurt! If you want me to stop commenting, just say so, I will respect your wishes. I will also edit this post if you find it too offensive.


In these types of discussions, especially when you are coming from the position of power, accuracy is important.

, but instead of $60 a month the units are $100 a month

$200 is 5% of $4000, not 10%.


I am the primary Executive Producer (80% of the budget),
$3000 is 7.5% of $4000, not 8%.


This blase' treatment of the very facts of the matter, put in to question your assessment of the other particulars of the situation.

Following the standard of behavior that YOU have set for the "exec. producer\ sound recordists\equipment\manager\set designer\grip and what ever you call the guy who builds stuff.. "

If his going "over budget" makes him a "thief", then your misstatement of the facts makes you a ?????

I have more to say.. but I think Im over the line all ready..
 
First, just let me make it PERFECTLY clear, I have no stake in this, and am probing both for my own enjoyment as well as the potential learning opportunity. But like probing a rotten tooth, its going to hurt! If you want me to stop commenting, just say so, I will respect your wishes. I will also edit this post if you find it too offensive.


In these types of discussions, especially when you are coming from the position of power, accuracy is important.



$200 is 5% of $4000, not 10%.



$3000 is 7.5% of $4000, not 8%.


This blase' treatment of the very facts of the matter, put in to question your assessment of the other particulars of the situation.

Following the standard of behavior that YOU have set for the "exec. producer\ sound recordists\equipment\manager\set designer\grip and what ever you call the guy who builds stuff.. "

If his going "over budget" makes him a "thief", then your misstatement of the facts makes you a ?????

I have more to say.. but I think Im over the line all ready..

Don't mind you commenting at all.

I was SLIGHTLY off on a few numbers, after rechecking the budget...

The original budget for the location was $150. That would cover $60 X 2 for two 10 X 15 units plus fees for 1 month. He rented two 12 X 25 units at $100 per for 1.5 months plus fees. That comes to $340 or 227% of budget for the location. The total film budget is $4200 so $340 is 8% of the total budget (so my 10% was slightly high). Of that $4200 I have $3500 sitting in a bank account dedicated to the film. I have a PROMISE of $1000 from him, but not one red cent in my hand. So operating on the assumption he actually does put the $1000 in my hand, and we do spend $4200 76% of the budget is my money, and 24% would be his.

Going over budget doesn't make him a "thief", spending money, particularly more than was budgeted for an item without discussing it with the investor who has 3X the stake he does in the movie, nor with the producer tasked with reconcoiling all expenses to the budget makes him grossly incompetent (thus why we no longer trust any decision he makes).

Refusing, when called out on the expenditure to make any effort to undo what he did, makes him insubordinate, and by only mildly stretching the definition, a thief.

My mistake, was in accepting his promise of money without getting a document signed by him that clearly stated that his investment gave him no authority to spend one penny without my permission.

As I said, the only reason he wasn't fired on the spot when he refused to go get the money back is that losing his (potential) investment, AND his services as soundman would cut into the budget so deep it would basically derail the project.
 
Thanks for the clarity! :)

One more question on the details..

Did he PAY for the storage units out of YOUR account, or his own check book?


You do seem to have loaded a lot of expectation on him..

  • Financier
  • Sound Recordists
  • Sound Equipment Provider
  • Set Design
  • Set Craft
  • Carpenter
  • Location Scout
  • Executive Producer

It sounds like he thought he was PART OF THE MANAGEMENT, when you really just wanted his money, his equipment and his body... Yikes, remind me to stay of your casting couch! :lol:

Seriously though,
You could just look at it like this..

Instead of him paying YOU a $1000 for the privilege of helping you with your movie, hes only paying you $810 for that privilege. (you had $140 budgeted, he spent $240, the diff being $190, $1000 - $190 = $810!)

I suggest that you and your entire endeavor will be happier if you just let that go. Don't institute some punitive policy that is just going to slow the whole thing down and be a constant reminder of your conflict. As it is, Id be surprised he sticks around with that kind of attitude directed at him. I don't think YOU would...
 
Oh, you should stop spending at $3500.. Or even better.. stop spending your money NOW until he has spent $1000 of his own, that way, youll never have to try and recover it! I know your worried that he will blow it all on "moon pies and lolly pops" but maybe one more chance is in order...
 
You do seem to have loaded a lot of expectation on him..

  • Financier
  • Sound Recordists
  • Sound Equipment Provider
  • Set Design
  • Set Craft
  • Carpenter
  • Location Scout
  • Executive Producer

It sounds like he thought he was PART OF THE MANAGEMENT, when you really just wanted his money, his equipment and his body... Yikes, remind me to stay of your casting couch! :lol:


That is exactly what I was thinking. I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
The original budget for the location was $150. That would cover $60 X 2 for two 10 X 15 units plus fees for 1 month. He rented two 12 X 25 units at $100 per for 1.5 months plus fees. That comes to $340 or 227% of budget for the location. The total film budget is $4200 so $340 is 8% of the total budget (so my 10% was slightly high). Of that $4200 I have $3500 sitting in a bank account dedicated to the film. I have a PROMISE of $1000 from him, but not one red cent in my hand. So operating on the assumption he actually does put the $1000 in my hand, and we do spend $4200 76% of the budget is my money, and 24% would be his.

The increase in location fees from $150 to $340 is a $190 difference. $190 is less than a 5% increase over the total budget. Did you not include a percentage for contingency/overages in your budget? Usually, I add 10-15% for that. I mean, that's the nature of a budget - it changes. Some items go up, some go down, but there should always be room for increases.

That being said, I would, however, get that $1000 investment from this guy and put it into your production's bank account ASAP. Until you have cash in hand from him, he hasn't contributed and isn't really an investor yet. You can't expect to get it later, especially if you pick a fight with him over this decision he's made. Since he's already laid out the dough for the units, deduct that from what he gives you, get receipts, and move forward.

Well, a few weeks has passed since you began this thread - hope it all worked out.
 
Back
Top