2 people shooting year-long Documentary

[suriel]

Hey everyone, I'm a super newbie in filming and found a lot of my questions answered in other threads in the forum already but have some questions, and would really like to input.

My husband has Type 1 Diabetes and we are doing a year long climbing trip (365 consecutive days) and documenting the entire journey.


What we have:

GoPro Hero
Contour HD

Canon G11
Nikon D80
Nikon D60



What we need:

a f'ng clue.

no but seriously... the helmet cams will be used for climbing and summit and other action shots, and we know we need something more substantial for interviews of ourselves and other people since we'll be meeting up with a lot of other T1/T2 diabetics and interviewing them so audio will be important.

I'm not even going to list the cameras we've considered to keep a blank slate and open mind.

Our equipment budget: $3,000

For the majority of the year it will be the two of us filming every thing, there will be a few locations where we will have friends meeting up with us that have expressed interest in helping us film with filming, but obviously we will need to plan for just the two of us doing everything.


and yes i know...we're a bit insane. http://www.indiegogo.com/Project-365-1

 

[Randy Ericksen]

Do a search around here on audio. It is way more important and way harder than the video.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Do a search around here on audio. It is way more important and way harder than the video.

I'll have to disagree with Randy in this case just a bit. While yes, it is true that when you're recording dialogue you need to get the best sound as possible, but in this case you're making a doc, and sound problems are easily fix with V/O narratation. Set up for good sound when interviewing, but don't let it stop you from recording video.

What YOU need to be concerned with is getting as much footage as possible because 99% of your footage is going to be, sorry to say this, boring. Its the 1% moments you need to capture -- and if your camera isn't on when these 1% moments occur, then you have nothing.

The key is to assemble a doc from all the 1% moments you've captured. Diabetes is not an unique topic so you really need the 1%.

So, look at extra batteries, extra chargers (12v & 120v), extra cameras, durable equipment and so on. An award winning doc running an hour might have over 200 hours of footage (or more).

Good luck.

 

[suriel]

What YOU need to be concerned with is getting as much footage as possible because 99% of your footage is going to be, sorry to say this, boring. Its the 1% moments you need to capture -- and if your camera isn't on when these 1% moments occur, then you have nothing.

The key is to assemble a doc from all the 1% moments you've captured. Diabetes is not an unique topic so you really need the 1%.

yeah, ive been told and we've been getting into the habit of basically recording everything we do since there's going to be hundreds of hours of unusable footage. I was also advised to keep lots of notes of interesting days to cut down the time spent editing through a snooze fest. The diabetes isn't really the unique topic, the desire to do this came from reaching a breaking point of diabetics accepting a victim mentality and idly sitting back and waiting for a cure.

v/o will definitely be necessary for outdoor shots with wind and such since we'll be hanging off the side of a cliff most days and more concerned with not dying than getting good audio. But there will be days where we will set up multiple ropes and one can climb with a helmet cam, and another rappels down with a cam to get a different angle.


so all of that being said....thoughts on cameras? I've been looking at the Panasonic AG-HMC150 because of its compact size and mic, any opinions on this?

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

yeah, ive been told and we've been getting into the habit of basically recording everything we do since there's going to be hundreds of hours of unusable footage. I was also advised to keep lots of notes of interesting days to cut down the time spent editing through a snooze fest. The diabetes isn't really the unique topic, the desire to do this came from reaching a breaking point of diabetics accepting a victim mentality and idly sitting back and waiting for a cure.

v/o will definitely be necessary for outdoor shots with wind and such since we'll be hanging off the side of a cliff most days and more concerned with not dying than getting good audio. But there will be days where we will set up multiple ropes and one can climb with a helmet cam, and another rappels down with a cam to get a different angle.


so all of that being said....thoughts on cameras? I've been looking at the Panasonic AG-HMC150 because of its compact size and mic, any opinions on this?

I like to use the drop test. If you drop your camera, will you afford to be able to replace it in mid-production? Aim for something you can afford to replace.

Another thing, you'll be on the road and you'll want something that is relatively easy to pick up "off the shelf" somewhere (or available in stock at BHPhotovideo). Waiting for back orders or frustration with out-of-stock issues is not something you need on the road.

I don't want to recommend specific cameras I've never used, but I will say this: All name brand HD video cameras capture decent images -- its what you capture with it that matters far more than the camera you're using. Techies and gear freaks will be chiming in soon, but remember what you capture matters more than camera specs and brand debates!

Good luck!

 

[suriel]

I like to use the drop test. If you drop your camera, will you afford to be able to replace it in mid-production? Aim for something you can afford to replace.

Another thing, you'll be on the road and you'll want something that is relatively easy to pick up "off the shelf" somewhere (or available in stock at BHPhotovideo). Waiting for back orders or frustration with out-of-stock issues is not something you need on the road.

I don't want to recommend specific cameras I've never used, but I will say this: All name brand HD video cameras capture decent images -- its what you capture with it that matters far more than the camera you're using. Techies and gear freaks will be chiming in soon, but remember what you capture matters more than specs and brand debates!

Good luck!

Thanks!

the drop test, i like it. a very good thing for us to consider...considering what we will be doing. I just downloaded the book you recommended in another thread, Shut up and Shoot.


So as far as Interview shots go (some in doors, some outdoors, most in a tent) would something like a Sony HDRCX700V suffice?

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Thanks!

the drop test, i like it. a very good thing for us to consider...considering what we will be doing. I just downloaded the book you recommended in another thread, Shut up and Shoot.


So as far as Interview shots go (some in doors, some outdoors, most in a tent) would something like a Sony HDRCX700V suffice?

I'm partial to Sony products. Another thing, since you're doing a doc, it would not matter if the audience sees the lapel mike, plug it right into the camera to avoid the on-board mike.

Yes, "Shut Up and Shoot", one of the bests books on filmmaking period.

 

[PaulGriffith]

A really important piece of gear for you to consider: laptop and lots and lots of portable harddrives. A year is an insane amount of footage. You'll have to get into the habit of logging your footage once or twice a day. Keep very good notes, find a good sumystem for labeling files, and the stud thats really good make backups. Come 2013 you'll have a hard time remembering when exactly that one great moment in February was and on what drive you can find it.

Software like Adobe OnLocation might help. You can enter meta data into clips so you can do a search later and find keywords.

Have you thought about wireless lapel mics? If 90% of his is just you two, then a dual mic system going into one of the cameras will help you not have to find and sync yet another file. Since it's a documentary and real life, onboard mics (with subtitles if needed) is ok for the odd encounter.

Batteries. Lots and lots and more and lots of batteries. Cameras, audio gear, laptops, you name it. If you're in the middle of nowhere, there are solar products that can charge one battery a day. Might be worth buying 12.

Finally, once you have all of your gear, do a week long test run. Go camping and do the routine. Shoot, dump, log, charge, repeat. Come home and edit together a 5 minute video. Find out where the holes in your system are there so that you don't get to post production after a year of shooting to find that because of one simple thing you're missing something vital.

I didn't day anything about cameras. I think anything with memory cards and interchangeable batteries will work. If you can get two for a backup even better. Since you're mixing helmet can footage anyway, slightly lower quality other video isn't gonna make or break it. The content is already killer. Light gear like small tripods and monopods will be a lifesaver.

Good luck! It's a massive prpject, hope it turns out better than you expect!

 

[suriel]

A really important piece of gear for you to consider: laptop and lots and lots of portable harddrives. A year is an insane amount of footage. You'll have to get into the habit of logging your footage once or twice a day. Keep very good notes, find a good sumystem for labeling files, and the stud thats really good make backups. Come 2013 you'll have a hard time remembering when exactly that one great moment in February was and on what drive you can find it.

Software like Adobe OnLocation might help. You can enter meta data into clips so you can do a search later and find keywords.

Have you thought about wireless lapel mics? If 90% of his is just you two, then a dual mic system going into one of the cameras will help you not have to find and sync yet another file. Since it's a documentary and real life, onboard mics (with subtitles if needed) is ok for the odd encounter.

Batteries. Lots and lots and more and lots of batteries. Cameras, audio gear, laptops, you name it. If you're in the middle of nowhere, there are solar products that can charge one battery a day. Might be worth buying 12.

Finally, once you have all of your gear, do a week long test run. Go camping and do the routine. Shoot, dump, log, charge, repeat. Come home and edit together a 5 minute video. Find out where the holes in your system are there so that you don't get to post production after a year of shooting to find that because of one simple thing you're missing something vital.

I didn't day anything about cameras. I think anything with memory cards and interchangeable batteries will work. If you can get two for a backup even better. Since you're mixing helmet can footage anyway, slightly lower quality other video isn't gonna make or break it. The content is already killer. Light gear like small tripods and monopods will be a lifesaver.

Good luck! It's a massive prpject, hope it turns out better than you expect!

Before I thank you for your help I would just like to take a moment to say how nice it is to be new to a forum and be met with only positive and helpful advice. Guess I'm just use to climbing forums that just thrive on breaking newbies down...

In my list of equipment I did forget to mention, 2 laptops (macbook pro, and a toshiba) and 2 3TB external hard drives. We've prepped our hard drives for the first 4 months to see how the filing system will work for us (a folder for each month, a sub folder for each climbing area visited that month) and we are checking out different solar products to see what will be the best option, we will have a good test run since we'll be starting in Joshua Tree in January so we will be able to stay with a few friends while we figure out whats working and what isn't.

We are very lucky to have a friend that is way more experience with video editing than we are and is super excited about what we are doing and we will be sending him footage to update for us while we are on the road to help us see what's working, what we need more of and where the arc will be developing.

We haven't looked into wireless mics, but I will definitely consider it and do a little research now.

Honestly, the biggest thing I'm kind of stressed about right now with picking a camera is getting an interview with someone really cool and then having it be completely useless because I didn't think the audio through of something asinine like that.


Thanks for your input

 

[directorik]

I have edited three documentaries made by a long distance
hiker. He used a Canon GL2 and the on camera mic. He sent
me the tapes so he did not need to carry a laptop with him.
I logged all the footage and did an edit as he was hiking. When
the hike was finished we worked together to finish the edit.

Might be something for you to consider. He did a lot of interviews
and while the audio was often not the very best of the best, it
worked out just fine because of the subject matter - a hiker hiking.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Yeah, I don't know those cameras you mentioned, but I do know the camera directorik mentioned -- the GL2 -- it's a terrific camera, and I agree that with a long road-trip type project like this, miniDV tapes will be far more preferable to any kind of digital memory (which can get expensive).

My main piece of advice for you, however, is something entirely different. You need a focus, now. Choose something very specific, something you want to say. Organize and plan your shoot around that. This is preproduction.

If you walk into production with a "plan" of just shooting random footage, post-production will be a nightmare. Don't just "collect" the footage that falls in your laps. Go out and actively get the footage that will serve the purpose you intend for this movie.

I reject the idea that documentaries are supposed to be some discovery of the truth. Don't be afraid to make a statement; this documentary is your vision. And that vision starts (most crucially) in pre-production.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

I'm a bit old school . . . I'd prefer to be mailing miniDV tapes home along the way than to keep everything on a hard drive(s) that could disappear into a crack in a glacier!

Since there is a lot of physical activity involved in your project, keeping it simple will ensure you'll still pull that camera out when you're dead tired and sick of the whole thing.

I gotta agree with the logging thing. Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do.

--------------

Edit: I just saw crackerfunk's post and I agree, a specific goal is important.

 

[PaulGriffith]

We still use MiniDV cameras for one broadcast show we do. Still, I gotta say memory card. The GoPros already use them, they're small and cheap, and carrying hundreds of blank tapes could get in the way haha.

Plus, DV tape = 1 Hour (less in HDV). Shoot say 8 hours a day of cameras are constantly rolling. If you have two cameras, even more but we'll just say 8 to be conservative. 8x365 = 2920 hours of capture, or at least scrubbing and capturing kit the good stuff vs a half hour of dumping footage each day that you can add meta tags and search through. At a very cheap $2 per tape (if you buy in bulk, if you buy at electronics stores along the way they're closer to $4.50-$6 each), that's almost $6000 in tape costs too. Now maybe you aren't shooting 8 hours a day, still. 16gb SD cards are like $25 each. Buy 10 or more.

Harddrives are so cheap, mail those back. 2 3TB isn't enough.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I'll second Cracker Funk's suggestion of coming up with a plan for what you want to say, and therefore film, first. I just finished up 20 days of shooting for a doc and ended up with over 120 hours of footage, and that didn't include a lot of rolling continuously in case something happened - we were shooting a lot of specific things. Our source files totalled over 2tb, since everything was duplicated for backup we filled nearly 5tb of portable drives. So a year is a really long time to be shooting steadily - you could easily end up with a thousand hours of footage or more and just filtering through it later will be a big barrier to completing the film.

Also media management will take up a lot more time than you think. We were up late every night offloading, duplicating and organizing footage from each day's shoot - as well as recharging batteries - and there were times we had to break midday to do that as well. Combined with a lot of 6am flights we ended up not getting a lot of sleep - next time I'll try to figure a way to have someone else responsible for the media management.

Doing a test run for a week or similar is also a good suggestion - I'd also say you should try cutting a short film from the test footage as well, as that will give you a better idea of what types of footage and situations you'll end up using the most in the final film.

 

[Randy Ericksen]

If you are going to buy a new camera for action this is my recommendation. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF100-Camcorder-Review-35094.htm
I have used 2 to film 4 expedition length (6-10 days) adventure races. It is small enough to carry in your hand 18 hours a day. I am also taking them to Patagonia in Feb. to shoot a 10 day raceI use Canons "shotgun mic". It is also small enough to carry on the front of your pack. I would also get another Contour http://www.amazon.com/Contour-GPS-C...DQ2W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1321911343&sr=8-3 so you can frame your shots. and the LCD back for the GoPro. it sucks to have some great climbing footage that is just a little out of frame.

 

[suriel]

Thanks for all of the input everyone.

directorrik- is there anywhere i can watch his documentaries? i would love to see them.


Cracker Funk & ItDonnedOnMe: we've made a list of topics for our focus and are making a plan this week...we know there are several angles that a story can be built upon so we have an idea of what we want to say. The idea of Project 365 came from one evening while we were talking about our next climbing trip when I suggested that if he has to live with Type 1 everyday and always deal with people giving him a confused look because "he doesn't look over weight" why not climb everyday? Once we started sharing this idea with friends and family, instead of talking us out of it they all told us to document it.

We get on our soapbox pretty regularly about not waiting for a cure for Type 1 and living a lifestyle that will enhance insulin sensitivity and reduce the amount of units needed a day. So there are several issues that we can cover but yes, we need a specific focus. I'm really pushing the anti- big pharma angle, he's really pushing the nutrition.

ItDonnedonMe: most days we'll spend about 6-8 hrs climbing and filming and 2-4hrs on rest days...we do plan on doing some short films and several video blogs. I have one friend that offered to do some of the media management for us if we send him our harddrives...i think i may have him write that in blood...

Guerrilla Angel- well I think at the moment we will only be doing 1 or 2 mountaineering trips so the chances of things falling into a glacier should be slim...unless im falling down there with it.


For the sake of space i think we will be better off with digital since we'll be living out of a 87 Toyota station wagon (the dragon wagon)

Randy Ericksen: Would that be the Patagonia Expedition Race? Bad-ass...
We have a LCD back for our GoPro, and we were talking about getting a second GoPro to total our helmet cams to 3, but do you think a Contour would be a better option? They do show up on SteepandCheap pretty regulary and are about half the price of a GoPro...


What I've learned so far:

Get a Shooting Plan
Get a Sh*t ton of batteries
Get a Sh*t ton of 64GB cards
Get a Sh*t ton of external harddrives
Find some elves in an enchanted forrest (montana maybe?) to do my logging.
Definitely do week long test run.
Don't fall into a glacier.


Next week I'll be going to B&H to compare the camera's you guys have suggested.

 

[Randy Ericksen]

Patagonia is the one. My wife has raced it the last 2 years so I have a relationship with it. They have spent a ton on money on video and not many views, this year they may spend less to get the same. I also shot and produced Primal Quest Badlands, Untamed New England, Apex in Switzerland, and Expedition Idaho. If you are going to be in the Needles in South Dakota let me know.
It may be just be me but I only use 16Gb cards. You will need more but if you lose one or it goes bad you will lose less. If I can during a race I back up to 2 hard drives and keep the card.

 

[suriel]

Patagonia is the one. My wife has raced it the last 2 years so I have a relationship with it. They have spent a ton on money on video and not many views, this year they may spend less to get the same. I also shot and produced Primal Quest Badlands, Untamed New England, Apex in Switzerland, and Expedition Idaho. If you are going to be in the Needles in South Dakota let me know.
It may be just be me but I only use 16Gb cards. You will need more but if you lose one or it goes bad you will lose less. If I can during a race I back up to 2 hard drives and keep the card.

we will DEFINITELY be in the Needles. We both have a serious love affair with the Black Hills, we are there every summer.. Right now we plan on being in South Dakota in August 2012.

And good thought on the 16 vs 64.