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critique Lily Fire (Screenplay)

sfoster

Staff Member
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I posted the outline last week and people really liked it!

Plot: Eleven year old Lily is celebrating christmas when her family is attacked by the mafia, sending her life spiraling out of control.

[EDIT: LINK REMOVED]

There are some elements that will be amazing on screen.
Like forcing the family to sit there watching their loved one have a heart attack and being helpless to do anything.

But I feel like it doesn't really come across very powerful in the script yet it will come off powerful on screen.
Screenplays just dont embellish those sort of feelings, you state the facts and you move on writing right?

Could I handle the heart attack better on paper?
I found the whole home invasion scene surprisingly difficult to write effectively.
 
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I think this is my next short film :cheers:
added some punch to the ending this morning

theres a couple lines of dialogue that could be enhanced but theyre quite tricky.
and i want to give Lily something meatier to say during the home invasion scene. right now she's all 1 word dialogue there.
 
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I perhaps wouldn't write it as bluntly as "Grandpa has a heart attack" straight after the hitmen enter. When I first read that line, I imagined it in my head in rather a comedic way with Grandpa dropping dead before a word had been uttered. Maybe use visual clues instead (clutches his chest, slumps to the ground, struggles with breathing etc.) to better describe the progress of the heart attack.

I'm not sold on the idea that the hitmen would spare Lily out of empathy and the whole phone contacts thing. I can't imagine they would trust a random little girl who's just lost her entire family to not break down and tell the police everything. Far easier to just kill her like the rest of the family, as they were instructed to.

As a suggestion, could you perhaps have Lily's best friend be at the Birthday, and just before the hitmen arrive, Lily leaves the room for something. Then one of the hitmen says something along the lines of "and you must be Lily" to her friend and kills her instead. Lily meanwhile is watching all, or part, of this unfold from a hiding spot but doesn't get a proper look at the attackers. Maybe she does notice something distinctive about them though (like a tattoo) which she then spots on the news broadcast later on. The problem with this approach is it makes Lily a passive character in the scene which is perhaps not what you want.

The only other thing I wasn't sure about was the ear thing. I know the story is meant to be surreal but ripping it off with your bare hands takes some doing, even for a fully grown adult. Biting it off would be more feasible or snipping it off with scissors.

I agree some of the lines of dialogue could do with a little sharpening up but overall it's not bad. The bit about the brother for example, perhaps one of them could actually say his name rather than just referring to him as the brother.

Just some thoughts.
 
I perhaps wouldn't write it as bluntly as "Grandpa has a heart attack" straight after the hitmen enter. When I first read that line, I imagined it in my head in rather a comedic way with Grandpa dropping dead before a word had been uttered. Maybe use visual clues instead (clutches his chest, slumps to the ground, struggles with breathing etc.) to better describe the progress of the heart attack.

I'm not sold on the idea that the hitmen would spare Lily out of empathy and the whole phone contacts thing. I can't imagine they would trust a random little girl who's just lost her entire family to not break down and tell the police everything. Far easier to just kill her like the rest of the family, as they were instructed to.

As a suggestion, could you perhaps have Lily's best friend be at the Birthday, and just before the hitmen arrive, Lily leaves the room for something. Then one of the hitmen says something along the lines of "and you must be Lily" to her friend and kills her instead. Lily meanwhile is watching all, or part, of this unfold from a hiding spot but doesn't get a proper look at the attackers. Maybe she does notice something distinctive about them though (like a tattoo) which she then spots on the news broadcast later on. The problem with this approach is it makes Lily a passive character in the scene which is perhaps not what you want.

The only other thing I wasn't sure about was the ear thing. I know the story is meant to be surreal but ripping it off with your bare hands takes some doing, even for a fully grown adult. Biting it off would be more feasible or snipping it off with scissors.

I agree some of the lines of dialogue could do with a little sharpening up but overall it's not bad. The bit about the brother for example, perhaps one of them could actually say his name rather than just referring to him as the brother.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks ! You're totally right about the ear. That was an homage to the presidio with sean connery and my googling indicates it's bullshit lol.
appreciate you pointing that out. will change to something else.

Lily could easily have gone to the bathroom or something - or even be hiding when the family is killed. its a clever idea bout her having a friend.
The problem is that its just not as dramatic if she is absent.
Having her there and seeing her family get killed and reacting to it is going to make for better film.

A gangster not wanting to kill a little kid is the ENTIRE crux of Scarface. People love that movie, it's a cult classic, it's believable he wont kill the kid.
It's not believable in mine? What can i do to make it more believable like it is in scarface. ... hmmm
 
Thanks ! You're totally right about the ear. That was an homage to the presidio with sean connery and my googling indicates it's bullshit lol.
appreciate you pointing that out. will change to something else.

Lily could easily have gone to the bathroom or something - or even be hiding when the family is killed. its a clever idea bout her having a friend.
The problem is that its just not as dramatic if she is absent.
Having her there and seeing her family get killed and reacting to it is going to make for better film.

A gangster not wanting to kill a little kid is the ENTIRE crux of Scarface. People love that movie, it's a cult classic, it's believable he wont kill the kid.
It's not believable in mine? What can i do to make it more believable like it is in scarface. ... hmmm
I assume you're talking about the car bombing that Tony wants to call off because the father is with his kid? I suppose if you were trying to transfer the same concept into this film though, that would mean calling off the entire hit because the kid was there? The difference in yours is they've been told to kill the kid and they know she will be at the house before they go there.

I totally get empathy and that even the baddest of characters would have reservations about killing a child but for some reason I just found it a bit odd in this scene. Maybe it's because we have no background to the hitmen's story. They came across to me as ruthless hired goons by the way they nonchalantly take out the family in front of Lily. As hitmen, their job is to kill the people they've been told do, and to do it in such a way they are not going to get caught. Their boss has given them a specific instruction to kill all the family which they then decide to ignore and, they also leave themselves open to being caught by putting their trust in a traumatised little girl to keep quiet.

Maybe if there was a scene prior to them storming the house where they discuss their discomfort about taking out the kid it might help. And/or maybe they wear masks so that they are not relying on Lily to keep their identity concealed.

I don't know, maybe it works fine and it's just me. See what other people think about it.
 
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I assume you're talking about the car bombing that Tony wants to call off because the father is with his kid? I suppose if you were trying to transfer the same concept into this film though, that would mean calling off the entire hit because the kid was there? The difference in yours is they've been told to kill the kid and they know she will be at the house before they go there.

I totally get empathy and that even the baddest of characters would have reservations about killing a child but for some reason I just found it a bit odd in this scene. Maybe it's because we have no background to the hitmen's story. They came across to me as ruthless hired goons by the way they nonchalantly take out the family in front of Lily. As hitmen, their job is to kill the people they've been told do, and to do it in such a way they are not going to get caught. Their boss has given them a specific instruction to kill all the family which they then decide to ignore and, they also leave themselves open to being caught by putting their trust in a traumatised little girl to keep quiet.

Maybe if there was a scene prior to them storming the house where they discuss their discomfort about taking out the kid it might help. And/or maybe they wear masks so that they are not relying on Lily to keep their identity concealed.

I don't know, maybe it works fine and it's just me. See what other people think about it.

lol dont expect other people to chime it, its just you and me 😄
yes the bombing. a couple difference with it, scarface didnt have the option of killing the family and sparing the kid bc it was a bomb.
if it was a home invasion scene he could have killed the family and let the kid live.

One of the considerations i had - lily watches her grandma get shot in the belly in front of her, grandpa has heart attack, etc
but that all happens when the hitman is walking the house perimeter.

when he returns and gives the nod to kill the family he can take lily to the other room
and then we just hear the 4 gunshots while he has the conversation with lily

does that soften him up enough for you
of course i was also considering the dad might fight back a little as well. instead of just sitting there all passive
 
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I agree with @Jkds about the gangsters deciding not to kill Lily - it doesn't ring true to me.

As an alternative, you could make it a form of torture by the gangsters - they tie up Lily and make her watch as they kill her family.

Then her survival is part of their cruelty rather than mercy.

But whatever works best for you.
 
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lol dont expect other people to chime it, its just you and me 😄
yes the bombing. a couple difference with it, scarface didnt have the option of killing the family and sparing the kid bc it was a bomb.
if it was a home invasion scene he could have killed the family and let the kid live.

One of the considerations i had - lily watches her grandma get shot in the belly in front of her, grandpa has heart attack, etc
but that all happens when the hitman is walking the house perimeter.

when he returns and gives the nod to kill the family he can take lily to the other room
and then we just hear the 4 gunshots while he has the conversation with lily

does that soften him up enough for you
of course i was also considering the dad might fight back a little as well. instead of just sitting there all passive
You mean soften him in the sense that he cares enough to spare her having to witness the slaughter? A little, perhaps, but you still have the contradiction of a compassionate hired killer defying orders, we'd need something to make us understand why he is making this choice. Are you thinking that he then pretends to kill her so that the hitwoman isn't complicit in letting her go, or is this both their plan from the outset?

Out of interest, why haven’t you just gone down the route of having her escape the house after her family is killed? Just thinking could it be an opportunity to see some of her skills? If you want to keep the hitman empathy aspect to the story, you could even have her running away from the scene as the hitwomen aims her gun and the hitman tells her to leave it.

Just expanding on that as thoughts randomly bounce around my head, since they end up in court in your story, it could be that Lily's initial testimony helps put them there anyway? Could then have a court scene where Lily is asked does she recognise her family's murderers in the court room and after a beat, she says "no", to much consternation, which ultimately leads to the case collapse. Then comes the twist of her wanting to administer the justice herself which follows the rest of your film.

It's difficult to offer ideas as it often means compromising some aspect of the story that you envisioned in a certain way.
 
You mean soften him in the sense that he cares enough to spare her having to witness the slaughter? A little, perhaps, but you still have the contradiction of a compassionate hired killer defying orders, we'd need something to make us understand why he is making this choice. Are you thinking that he then pretends to kill her so that the hitwoman isn't complicit in letting her go, or is this both their plan from the outset?

Out of interest, why haven’t you just gone down the route of having her escape the house after her family is killed? Just thinking could it be an opportunity to see some of her skills? If you want to keep the hitman empathy aspect to the story, you could even have her running away from the scene as the hitwomen aims her gun and the hitman tells her to leave it.

Just expanding on that as thoughts randomly bounce around my head, since they end up in court in your story, it could be that Lily's initial testimony helps put them there anyway? Could then have a court scene where Lily is asked does she recognise her family's murderers in the court room and after a beat, she says "no", to much consternation, which ultimately leads to the case collapse. Then comes the twist of her wanting to administer the justice herself which follows the rest of your film.

It's difficult to offer ideas as it often means compromising some aspect of the story that you envisioned in a certain way.

Honestly I don't think that mafia hitmen ever kill little girls like that in real life.. it's not part of the lifestyle.
Especially because it creates public backlash and attention - exactly the sort of thing that the mafia does not want.

but multiple people saying it doesnt ring true then something has to change.
Court scene is too much production budget for me - i just have an external shot of them walking outside.

The idea of her running away could possibly work. dad fights back, creates opportunity for lily to escape.
I don't think the hitman telling her "leave it" is any different than what we have now though

I could change it so the woman doesnt think they should kill the kid either and its just not part of the order to murder children.
 
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Honestly I don't think that mafia hitmen ever kill little girls like that in real life.. it's not part of the lifestyle.
Especially because it creates public backlash and attention - exactly the sort of thing that the mafia does not want.
Well no, most probably wouldn't. But then again, most probably wouldn't brazenly murder an entire innocent family in the middle of their children's birthday party while eating ribs LOL.
 
I dont expect anyone to reread.. two months later this is an order of magnitude better
all of the problems are fixed, there is more action and more emotion, better costumes, colors and a christmas theme.

I finnnnnnnnnnnaaaly finished editing my other film, got it down to 9 minutes 50 seconds!
So I can focus on lily fire now as my next project.

I dropped the child cursing because 1) ppl find it funny and 2) I want a larger pool of actresses to choose from

[EDIT: Redacted]
 
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Wow, It's a completely different story now, both the hitmen cop it in the beginning. It's good but personally I preferred the darkness contained within the first draft, think that's just personal preference though. Since you're making it yourself, I suppose you need to go with what works best and what is most viable. Good luck with it!
 
Wow, It's a completely different story now, both the hitmen cop it in the beginning. It's good but personally I preferred the darkness contained within the first draft, think that's just personal preference though. Since you're making it yourself, I suppose you need to go with what works best and what is most viable. Good luck with it!

Quite the revamp! right? I love the imagery of mrs claus with a shotgun. and a little elf dual wielding pistols.
There will be some slow motion in that gunfight at the end haha.

Interesting you feel it is less dark now. I have the mom dying in lily's arms. and it still ends with her burning someone alive.
what did i change to make it less dark?

I feel like I made it super action packed but have two emotional moments with the mom dying and the dad memory.
and its a story told in color as well, with red and green everywhere invaded and overwhelmed the blues
 
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Quite the revamp! right? I love the imagery of mrs claus with a shotgun. and a little elf dual wielding pistols.
There will be some slow motion in that gunfight at the end haha.

Interesting you feel it is less dark now. I have the mom dying in lily's arms. and it still ends with her burning someone alive.
what did i change to make it less dark?

I feel like I made it super action packed but have two emotional moments with the mom dying and the dad memory.
and its a story told in color as well, with red and green everywhere invaded and overwhelmed the blues
Fair point, it is still dark. I guess the main difference is in that family scene. Before it was a one-sided slaughter she witnesses in a situation where everyone is rendered helpless. Whereas now it's a shootout, where a small sense of justice and honour plays out with the parents killing the hitmen.
 
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