Sound Setup - Help!

[Killjoy]

Hey guys!
So basically I'm wanting to do my first serious film, and I've been starting to get things rolling, and the biggest part of that for me is getting equipment. I have a fairly good DSLR that I'm going to use, but the problem is that it doesn't have an audio input.

So, I've been researching microphones and the options I might be able to take, and I've come up with this set up:

I'm going to get this:

http://www.new-media.com.au/Rode-Videomic-Directional-On-Camera-Microphone.html

And run it into this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/699403-REG/Zoom_H1_H1_Ultra_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

I'll also get one of those fluffy covers to put over the mic to reduce wind, and I'll be making a boom pole for the Videomic (there are some great DIY's on the internet for them.)

But considering I have next to no idea what I'm doing when it comes to sound, I'm guessing there are key factors I'm looking over.

My filming will be taking place mostly outdoors, both in open space and in forest, but also inside a house. It will be filmed at night.

Is this set up okay, considering this is about as much as my budget will allow me to spend on it? Or should I be considering something else?

 

[Alcove Audio]

Both are consumer products and will require great amounts of care if used for serious filmmaking. You absolutely MUST get the mic off of the camera and have someone competent to operate the boom. 90% of solid production sound is skill/technique. The boom-op probably has one of the most difficult jobs on the set, and gain-staging, signal flow, etc. are nearly as important.

I would recommend Rik Viers "Production Sound Bible" as a good place to start reading.

 

[Killjoy]

Both are consumer products and will require great amounts of care if used for serious filmmaking. You absolutely MUST get the mic off of the camera and have someone competent to operate the boom. 90% of solid production sound is skill/technique. The boom-op probably has one of the most difficult jobs on the set, and gain-staging, signal flow, etc. are nearly as important.

I would recommend Rik Viers "Production Sound Bible" as a good place to start reading.

Thanks a lot for your advice!

By "get the mic off of the camera", do you mean that I need to leave the microphone that I buy detached from the camera, or that I need to be running the microphone I buy through the camera?

 

[Zensteve]

By "get the mic off of the camera", do you mean that I need to leave the microphone that I buy detached from the camera, or that I need to be running the microphone I buy through the camera?

For several reasons, "best" sound is often not recorded to the camera at all but rather to a dedicated audio recording device. Maybe an affordable H4n Zoom at the low end of the spectrum, to whatever the soundguy/gal brings that fills up an entire cart as they incessantly remind you of the multi-thousands of dollars worth of recording gear that you are paying them $50 a day for.

So while the camera may record a scratch track (suitable for quick edits & assembly), the really good audio gets married up later in post.

Let the camera people get the best image with the camera... let the audio people worry about the audio.

Of course, if it just ain't available, you make do with what you have. Just aim high.

 

[Killjoy]

For several reasons, "best" sound is often not recorded to the camera at all but rather to a dedicated audio recording device. Maybe an affordable H4n Zoom at the low end of the spectrum, to whatever the soundguy/gal brings that fills up an entire cart as they incessantly remind you of the multi-thousands of dollars worth of recording gear that you are paying them $50 a day for.

So while the camera may record a scratch track (suitable for quick edits & assembly), the really good audio gets married up later in post.

Let the camera people get the best image with the camera... let the audio people worry about the audio.

Of course, if it just ain't available, you make do with what you have. Just aim high.

So if I were to run a shotgun mic into a TASCAM PR-10 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PR10rec/) it wouldn't lower the quality too much? I know it's about $100 less than the H4n but I'd prefer to not buy something with microphones built-in when I'm only buying it so I can record stuff from a better microphone.
I've also actually decided to go with an Azden SGM-1X Shotgun Microphone, which has an XLR output. So I guess my other question is: How much will an XLR to 1/8" (3.5mm) adapter affect the sound quality?

 

[AudioPostExpert]

So if I were to run a shotgun mic into a TASCAM PR-10 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PR10rec/) it wouldn't lower the quality too much?

I've never used a PR-10 so I can't be sure but looking over the specs, it appears to be a glorified dictaphone rather than a bona fide location recorder.

How much will an XLR to 1/8" (3.5mm) adapter affect the sound quality?

That depends on the location where you're filming and whether or not you use a fully balanced converter rather than an adapter. If you just use a cheap adapter and you use a cable run of longer than about 10 feet or if you are filming where there is any radio, electrical or magnetic interference then the answer to your question is in all likelihood "significantly". Slightly techy explanation:

XLR connectors and cables are used in what is called a "Balanced" audio circuit. Using a balanced output from the mic, connected to a balanced input on the recorder (with a balanced cable) allows a system called Common Mode Rejection (CMR) to be employed, which very effectively eliminates interference. If the PR-10 (or any audio device) only has a 3.5mm input this means it does not have balanced circuitry and therefore cannot employ CMR.

I have never used Azden equipment so I'll leave it for someone else to comment but I know the Azden brand is a particular favourite of Alcove's!

If I were in your shoes, my priority would be to find a sound guy with some equipment of their own. If this is not an option, I would practice and make do with what I have and save my pennies until I can afford some proper location sound equipment. I'm not being a gear snob here, there is a very good reason for what I'm saying: The quality of equipment your current budget allows for (very bottom of the pro-sumer range) will be a step up from your camera's built in mic/sound but not a big enough step to get you usable production sound in many situations. Probably by the time you get to your next film (and possibly during the one you are currently planning) you will realise the need for better location sound equipment and the investment you have made now will have been wasted.

G