How much power does a producer have over a director?

[harmonica44]

I was thinking of breaking into the movie business by directing, but after practicing around with it, the past few months, maybe it's not for me. It's also difficult to learn from other filmmakers since no movies are being shot where I live, and almost no sets to get onto. So I was thinking, instead of directing why not I just write and produce my first feature, to break into the business, and hire a director.

My screenplay though, is extremely dark and controversial, much more than most movies. I told the story to four friends of mine, and they said that most filmmakers probably wouldn't even wanna touch it. And even if they did touch it, the extremely dark ending, would be changed by most producers. I then showed them the 11 page treatment for it, and they said they were impressed, that for such a dark controversial story, it has a lot of substance to it.

If I do hire a director, I will be hiring a newcomer who has probably never done a feature before. Now I'm not saying this is true for everyone, I am just going by observations I have made from movies and what filmmakers have had to say. It seems a lot of young directors, just starting out really prefer style over substance.

But my script needs to be directed with the most substance, cause anything less, will make it exploitative and offensive. So as producer I will probably have to tell him how to do a lot of the shots, just so the material is given as much substance as possible and is done right. So how much control would I have in that area? Thanks.

 

[SinEater]

The producer is the director's boss. If you're providing the funding, you can have all the control over him that you want. That being said, there's a few aspects of your post that scare me.

My screenplay though, is extremely dark and controversial, much more than most movies. I told the story to four friends of mine, and they said that most filmmakers probably wouldn't even wanna touch it. And even if they did touch it, the extremely dark ending, would be changed by most producers. I then showed them the 11 page treatment for it, and they said they were impressed, that for such a dark controversial story, it has a lot of substance to it.

They're your friends, so their opinions are biased and can't be trusted. You absolutely NEED to get feedback from people who don't know you.

So as producer I will probably have to tell him how to do almost each shot, just so the material is given as much substance as possible and is done right.

You've never even shot a short. What makes you think you know how make sure the material is "done right"?

I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm just trying to make sure you don't piss away $70,000.

 

[DeJager]

If you have to tell the director how to do almost every shot then really you should be directing the film yourself. That's what directors tend to do Producers usually just make sure everybody gets hired and things get done. Setting up the shot is the job of the DP as well as the vision of the Director. Just my 2 cents

 

[harmonica44]

The producer is the director's boss. If you're providing the funding, you can have all the control over him that you want. That being said, there's a few aspects of your post that scare me.



They're your friends, so their opinions are biased and can't be trusted. You absolutely NEED to get feedback from people who don't know you.



You've never even shot a short. What makes you think you know how make sure the material is "done right"?

I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm just trying to make sure you don't piss away $70,000.

I know you aren't. Well I was trying to show the treatment to people I trust, as oppose to just showing it anyone, who I don't know, and don't know how his or her taste, or what they think. I asked my friends to be brutally honest though, and they seemed to be. Telling me that most filmmakers won't wanna touch it, is not necessarily a friendly biased opinion though.

I can make sure the material is done right, cause I've seen several movies, and can if the material is shot with substance, or without. So I can tell the director based on that. You don't have to be a director to tell if material is done with substance, with all due respect of course.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Oh, cool, you've been practicing directing? You've mastered the magical art of practicing by not doing a damn thing?

And now you want to "produce", by telling your director what to do with every single shot? Uhh....I think they call that directing.

I keep trying with you, brotha. But I'm running out of patience. If you don't make at least a one-minute movie within ten days from now, I'm permanently pretending you don't exist. Now do something!

You wanna know how much power a producer has? Produce a movie!!!

 

[harmonica44]

lol yes I am trying to get people to do it. I have made home movies but nothing worth showing yet. I will keep practicing and I will make my own real short with hired help and a real script I've written, when I feel I am ready. I wouldn't tell the director to do every single shot, just all the ones where the controversy really matters, and has to be handled well, which are a lot of them.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I co-produced a fairly ambitious play, and although I would imagine that's a universe different from filmmaking, the notion of being responsible for so many aspects of the show beyond my main responsibility (acting) was a nightmare, and I'm never going to do it again if I can absolutely help it.

I like to contribute as much as possible, but the producer label just hangs more over my head than I'd like to have.

 

[Cracker Funk]

lol yes I am trying to get people to do it. I have made home movies but nothing worth showing yet. I will keep practicing and I will make my own real short with hired help and a real script I've written, when I feel I am ready.

No, dude, I don't think you get it. You make the best you can, with what you've got. There is no point in waiting. Peer-critique can be SO helpfull, you have no idea. Plus, as long as you call them "home movies", you won't hold yourself to the high standard that you should.

There shouldn't be any shame in this. You don't need hired help. You need practice. PRACTICE!!! You can't throw money at it.

 

[harmonica44]

Well the best I can do is shoot my friend or my brother, and just add ADR afterwards since I can't hold the camera and the mic at the same time. I can then edit it and all. I will shoot my own ADR once I master the sound better. I am doing the best I can now, with what I've got, but I am learning once peace of equipment at a time. It's not that I feel there is shame in it, I just don't know what else there is to practice with. I mean I got one or two friends who are available to shoot, and I have to use ADR. So it's hard to know when I am ready since I won't even be using ADR, when the real thing comes. I will practice more with the equipment for sure. I am calling them home movies, for now, but I do wanna set myself to a higher standard for pro movies later. I will post a practice film of mine on here, but there are a few sound things I need to learn first.

But yeah, I guess the consensus is, I might as well learn to direct a lot more, and direct it, instead of hiring someone, and telling him or her to do it my way.

 

[Cracker Funk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXSYUiezEU

My very first short. In-cam mic. Shitty lighting.

But it's something. I had a heck of a lot of fun making it, and I definitely learned from the experience (mostly learned a few things not to do, but also learned a few things that I thought worked well).

I'm done hearing excuses from you. You haven't practiced anything, until you've made a proper short. It's time to shit or get off the pot.

 

[harmonica44]

alright I will. I recently found out that I have been using the wrong type of XLR cable though so I have to find out what the right one I need is, then order that one in. Once I have it, I'll shoot something then post it.

 

[Cracker Funk]

alright I will. I recently found out that I have been using the wrong type of XLR cable though so I have to find out what the right one I need is, then order that one in. Once I have it, I'll shoot something then post it.

Cool! I hope you don't think I'm being an ass-hole. I'm honestly doing my best to encourage you on this, and sometimes encouragement requires ass-holery. Get that XLR cable, and make that movie!

Cheers.

 

[harmonica44]

thanks, I know you are trying to encourage me. I will. But saying the producer might as well be the director, if he is telling the director what to do, is not even close though. The director still needs to do a lot more, so the producer telling him how to do the shots is really not much directing at all, compared to all the other stuff the director has to do.

 

[CamVader]

thanks, I know you are trying to encourage me. I will. But saying the producer might as well be the director, if he is telling the director what to do, is not even close though. The director still needs to do a lot more, so the producer telling him how to do the shots is really not much directing at all, compared to all the other stuff the director has to do.

A producer micromanaging a project to that extent would have a hard time getting or keeping a decent director.

 

[harmonica44]

I see. Well I guess I would just have to make sure that the director understands substance over style. Do directors often want or feel they need to change scenes or scenarios at all?

 

[chilipie]

I made this three and a half years ago, in an afternoon with a friend - I think it was the third thing I'd ever shot, and the first time I'd ever done any visual effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fwSCQA4czw

We used a video camera that cost less than £400 and no sound equipment, adding in sound effects and (copyrighted, unlicensed) music in the edit. We took it in turns to camera operate when the other one was in shot, and did some doubling up in post following the instructions in The DV Rebel's Guide.

Is it really good? No. But I learnt a lot, we won an award organised by the local education authority, it led to lots of other projects (both unpaid and paid, which was pretty good at the age of 15/16) and most importantly it gave me the confidence to carry on working at getting better.

Stop asking questions. Stop making excuses. Start making films.

 

[Murdock]

I see. Well I guess I would just have to make sure that the director understands substance over style. Do directors often want or feel they need to change scenes or scenarios at all?

If you're that concerned direct it yourself.

 

[CamVader]

I see. Well I guess I would just have to make sure that the director understands substance over style. Do directors often want or feel they need to change scenes or scenarios at all?

IMO, you're heading for gnashing of teeth and immanent disaster with your outlook on things.

There is a book that explains, amongst other things, exactly what every job entails in film that you really need to read.

The People and Process of Film and Video Production - ISBN 0-205-37521-9

 

[DeJager]

When you are selecting your director for your film you should always make sure that you and he/she are on the same page, style wise and substance wise. If you interview them and review their past work that should give you a big indication on who they are as a director. You can work closely with everybody but extreme micromanaging will eventually hinder the project as well as motivation and creativity.

 

[harmonica44]

True I have looked at a few directors, work but so far they have chosen style of over substance. That's where I got the idea that maybe it's a habit of young directors who have only made short films so far. But if I do actual hiring I could probably get more works to see of course. I'll think about whether or not I will shoot it myself or hire. But for now I will concentrate on making my first short.