Zoom H4n on boom??

[ajedproduction]

Just a random question that popped into my head, just curious if it would work. Don't crucify me sound people haha.

I was watching the behind the scenes of the new Sean Ellis(cashback) movie Metro Manila and he was going around the city with a DSLR and a Zoom h4n mounted on top of it for sound. This just made me think, would it be possible to mount the zoom h4n on a boom pole and boom it to record dialogue for scenes using the internal mic?

Or would it sound awful?

 

[Alcove Audio]

If you want your production sound to be FUBAR go right ahead.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

We did this once on a doc shoot where we had to grab a quick interview and didn't have our sound kit with us. I had an H4n in my camera bag so we stuck it on a monopod to use as a boom. Worked reasonably well except for one small issue - you can't see any of the controls, and we lost a whole interview where the guy running it didn't realize it wasn't actually recording during the shoot. It also picked up quite a bit of handling noise since there was no shock mount between it and the pole. So it's doable, and can work in an emergency, but definitely not recommended if you have any alternative.

 

[LDS]

we lost a whole interview where the guy running it didn't realize it wasn't actually recording during the shoot. It also picked up quite a bit of handling noise since there was no shock mount between it and the pole.

that is not zoom h4N's fault but that guy's - he was dumb DUH! lol

zoom is used by a LOT of tv productions (BBC, Channel 4 (UK) etc...) for small videos-docs. Also a lot of shorts that have been accepted into film festivals had zoom h4N's audio.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

that is not zoom h4N's fault but that guy's - he was dumb DUH! lol

Right, but the reason he couldn't see that it wasn't recording is that it was mounted out on the boom pole, so the screen and recording button were facing away from him the whole time. This also meant he couldn't make adjustments to levels at all while recording. Also, the zoom requires you to hit record twice - the first time puts it into standby, and flashes the record button, the second time actually starts recording and the record light goes solid - this makes it easy for someone who's not familiar with it to think it's recording when it's not - which is made worse when you can't see the screen or operate the controls.

So I'm not saying don't use the H4n at all, I'm just saying don't use it mounted on a boom pole instead of a dedicated mic.

 

[LDS]

Right, but the reason he couldn't see that it wasn't recording is that it was mounted out on the boom pole, so the screen and recording button were facing away from him the whole time. This also meant he couldn't make adjustments to levels at all while recording. Also, the zoom requires you to hit record twice - the first time puts it into standby, and flashes the record button, the second time actually starts recording and the record light goes solid - this makes it easy for someone who's not familiar with it to think it's recording when it's not - which is made worse when you can't see the screen or operate the controls.

So I'm not saying don't use the H4n at all, I'm just saying don't use it mounted on a boom pole instead of a dedicated mic.

read the instructions first... then you can do whatever you want, however you want

 

[NickClapper]

My guess is that, with Metro Manila, he was using the H4N to record higher quality sound for the audio sync, especially in noisy urban areas where the onboard mic on a DSLR would record unusable sound. Likewise, I imagine that much of the dialogue in Metro Manila was ADRed, because of the run-and-gun nature of the shoot, and that they wanted a higher quality take to make it easier for the actors to lip sync.

I assume these things mainly because Metro Manila got a theatrical release with a full sound mix, and I don't believe that they did any dialogue capture with an H4N mounted to the top of the camera.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

read the instructions first... then you can do whatever you want, however you want

Sure, you can always just do whatever you want. But putting aside the issue of whether it's recording or not, as I mentioned there are still other reasons not to use it on a boom - you can't watch the levels on screen, or control the levels on the fly, and the handling noise comes through pretty badly. It's certainly better than mounting it on the camera, or using the camera's internal mic, but it's still not a particularly good choice compared to even using a cheap external mic on the boom.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

zoom is used by a LOT of tv productions (BBC, Channel 4 (UK) etc...) for small videos-docs. Also a lot of shorts that have been accepted into film festivals had zoom h4N's audio.

The Zoom H4N is NOT used "by a lot" of TV productions by the BBC (and others), in fact I doubt it's used even with a good quality external mic, let alone on it's own or attached to a boom! I'm sure some of the journalists working for the BBC use a H4N but very few if any of those recordings would ever make it to air. Likewise, only at the smallest, most regional film festivals is one likely to get a short accepted in which the audio has been recorded by just a H4N.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but to imply that it's widely used on productions by the major UK networks is not useful or accurate information. Alcove said it succinctly and accurately above!

G

 

[LDS]

The Zoom H4N is NOT used "by a lot" of TV productions by the BBC (and others), in fact I doubt it's used even with a good quality external mic, let alone on it's own or attached to a boom! I'm sure some of the journalists working for the BBC use a H4N but very few if any of those recordings would ever make it to air. Likewise, only at the smallest, most regional film festivals is one likely to get a short accepted in which the audio has been recorded by just a H4N.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but to imply that it's widely used on productions by the major UK networks is not useful or accurate information. Alcove said it succinctly and accurately above!

G

Well.. If it was good for Rihanna and and other "behind the scenes" documentaries... I think it is good for amateur film makers as well

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-05/enhanced/webdr08/5/11/enhanced-6433-1399303097-15.jpg

 

[trueindie]

Well.. If it was good for Rihanna and and other "behind the scenes" documentaries... I think it is good for amateur film makers as well

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-05/enhanced/webdr08/5/11/enhanced-6433-1399303097-15.jpg

The point, LDS, is that for dialog capture, if you're not in a documentary setting, there are other tools. Nothing particularly wrong with the Zoom H4N, but there definitely is a big difference in sound using a boompole with the proper gear.

I bought myself better speakers and a nice sony headset. Man, I can tell the difference in sound quality now. It all depends what you want to do with your film. For our every day shorts, sure zoom's not bad. But if we're going to make a feature and hope for theatrical release, it's not a bad idea to plan for better sound. I think that's the point APE is trying to make.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Well.. If it was good for Rihanna and and other "behind the scenes" documentaries... I think it is good for amateur film makers as well...

You seem to have made a number of inaccurate assumptions based on one photograph and then publicly posted those assumptions as fact:

1. As I said; for a quick and dirty, opportune interview by a journalist, I'm sure some of them use a H4N.
2. With an actual BBC filming crew (rather than just some journalist), the PSM would NEVER use just a H4N! Think about it for a minute, the BBC is one of the most respected TV networks in the world with a multi-billion dollar annual turnover, do you really think their film crews would be using hand-held prosumer quality audio recorders?
3. I very much doubt Rihanna reviewed the audio recording made by the journalist and therefore would have no idea whatsoever whether or not it was "good".
4. If the audio recording from the H4N was in fact used (which is unlikely), it would have been cleaned/processed by extremely well equipped, highly experienced audio post professionals for it to even stand a chance of passing BBC QC. And even then, it's entirely possible that a special dispensation had to be negotiated by the producers to enable the audio to clear QC.
5. Lastly, and given the points above, it is in fact only in exceptional circumstances and therefore very rare that a BBC TV production would use just a H4N to record primary audio, even for just a short segment. "Very rare" is pretty much the opposite of "a LOT", which is what you stated as fact.

Given a half decent external mic on a boom and someone with a half decent idea of how to use it, it's entirely possibly for an amateur filmmaker to achieve usable (by amateur standards) production sound using a H4N as the recorder. Without an external mic however, the sound quality using just a H4N is generally going to be just marginally better than using a camera's built in mics. If your filmmaking goal is to achieve marginally better quality than the average home video then yes, a H4N or a H4N attached to a boom pole would probably be good enough. However, I suspect most IT members joined IT, at least in part, to learn how to achieve substantially better than average home video standards.

G

 

[Sage Pictures]

H4N = the pits

A perfect example of a technology that succeeds in spite of itself; bc people want to have what their peers are having

C'mon. You can do better... without even spending any more!