Since I'm doing it dry, in a closest full of hung clothes, as I was told to do, does it matter if I use a shotgun or a hypercardioid? Whichever is best.
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Which mic should I use for dry ADR?
- Thread starter harmonica44
- Start date
Use the mic you originally recorded the dialog with if you'll be intercutting with production sound as the frequency responses will be similar (and try to match distance to subject as well). If it's just straight ADR for more than that, Pick the mic that makes the talent sound the best... test them at the beginning quickly or record multiple tracks simultaneously with the different mics.
In audio parlance a sound with reverb on it is "wet" while a sound without any reverb is referred to as "dry."
H44 - Knightly is right. The purpose of ADR is usually to replace a line or two of dialog. In these cases you want to match as exactly as possible the audio quality recorded on the set. That means using the same mic (yes, including brand and model, even the same exact mic, if possible) and some ADR mixers want to use the same pre-amp as well (i.e., if an SD302 was used on location the ADR mixer wants to use one).
If you are ADRing the entire scene, meaning all of the actors, then the mic does not have to match the one used on-location. However, most professional ADR houses use production sound mics as a matter of course, so their choice would be very close anyway.
The ambient reverb to make the ADR match the production sound is added during the rerecording process; the current crop of IR reverbs makes it relatively easy.
Okay thanks I got the same mics and pre-amps so it won't be a problem. I will also do it with either a blanket wrapped around the actor or a closet full of clothes. This one actor has moved but is currently in town now, so I only have one shot at this, and would like to get it right this time. I did as much research as I could and just found the same thing about the mics. Hope I am not forgetting anything. Thanks.
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Put the mic "into" the closet and use a few C-stands to hang blankets behind the actor(s).
Okay thanks. I don't have any C stands right now, but I could use the racks in the closet to hang them. Should I record all the foley the same way? I was just going to get started on that too, now that the final edit is almost done.
Foley is tricky. In a proper Foley facility several mics are used at varying distances so the Foley mixer can record everything from a dry close-up perspective to the full sound of the reverberant room simultaneously. My room is fairly small so I prefer close micing and then matching the reverberant characteristics of the dialog with AltiVerb when I mix.
Sounds that are "wet" (have reverb on them) tend to "fall back" into a mix; the reverb causes the sounds to have less definition - the reflections blend into each other. That is why I personally prefer to record everything as dry as possible. I add whatever amount of reverb I need during the mix so that the sounds retain whatever definition is required at that particular moment. This is not the way it's done on big budget projects; the rerecording team has the recordings of the multiple perspectives so they can pick and choose which one (or a blend of) they want at any given time. And, of course, they may send the sound(s) to the reverb buss as well.
You are going to have to do A LOT of experimenting. So you have a four-fold task; selecting the Foley prop that gives the emotional content that you want, performing it in sync, getting a decent recording of the performance and blending it into the mix. You'll go round and round until you figure it out.
I usually leave out the sync/performance part of the process until I'm happy with the sound. As I've mentioned before, since I'm not a professional Foley artist I tend to do footsteps for a character all the way through a project so I don't lose the "feel" once I'm "in character." Then I'll do cloth and then props handling for that character. Once I'm in the flow I can get a lot done in a hurry - one or two times to watch and then two or three takes to get the right performance. Sometimes I'll even get lucky and nail it on the first take. But the first few attempts may require a half dozen takes until I'm "in character." This method, however, means having very detailed Foley cue sheets so you are not constantly changing shoes and floor surfaces. So I'll do:
"Mike" - sneakers - concrete
"Mike" - boots - concrete
"Mike" - bare feet - concrete
and then move on to all his scenes on a wood floor. That's because it's more of a PITA for me to change floor surfaces than the footwear. In a proper Foley facility they have pits with each floor surface always available.
One of the biggest challenges - which can be fun - is building your Foley props collection. I usually add a few pairs of shoes with each project (I love the looks I get when I try on high heels at the Good Will store
) and whatever new things I'll need for the specific project. Keep in mind that the real thing never sounds like the real thing. Also, sounds should be somewhat "bigger" as they tend to get "smaller" as they fall back into perspective during the mix.
You should get "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament. It's a great, fun, informative read and the DVD is fantastic.
Sounds that are "wet" (have reverb on them) tend to "fall back" into a mix; the reverb causes the sounds to have less definition - the reflections blend into each other. That is why I personally prefer to record everything as dry as possible. I add whatever amount of reverb I need during the mix so that the sounds retain whatever definition is required at that particular moment. This is not the way it's done on big budget projects; the rerecording team has the recordings of the multiple perspectives so they can pick and choose which one (or a blend of) they want at any given time. And, of course, they may send the sound(s) to the reverb buss as well.
You are going to have to do A LOT of experimenting. So you have a four-fold task; selecting the Foley prop that gives the emotional content that you want, performing it in sync, getting a decent recording of the performance and blending it into the mix. You'll go round and round until you figure it out.
I usually leave out the sync/performance part of the process until I'm happy with the sound. As I've mentioned before, since I'm not a professional Foley artist I tend to do footsteps for a character all the way through a project so I don't lose the "feel" once I'm "in character." Then I'll do cloth and then props handling for that character. Once I'm in the flow I can get a lot done in a hurry - one or two times to watch and then two or three takes to get the right performance. Sometimes I'll even get lucky and nail it on the first take. But the first few attempts may require a half dozen takes until I'm "in character." This method, however, means having very detailed Foley cue sheets so you are not constantly changing shoes and floor surfaces. So I'll do:
"Mike" - sneakers - concrete
"Mike" - boots - concrete
"Mike" - bare feet - concrete
and then move on to all his scenes on a wood floor. That's because it's more of a PITA for me to change floor surfaces than the footwear. In a proper Foley facility they have pits with each floor surface always available.
One of the biggest challenges - which can be fun - is building your Foley props collection. I usually add a few pairs of shoes with each project (I love the looks I get when I try on high heels at the Good Will store
) and whatever new things I'll need for the specific project. Keep in mind that the real thing never sounds like the real thing. Also, sounds should be somewhat "bigger" as they tend to get "smaller" as they fall back into perspective during the mix.You should get "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament. It's a great, fun, informative read and the DVD is fantastic.
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Okay thanks. I tried experimenting in my own closet for ADR, but it's not big enough and the actor will have to bend over to get into the part where all the reverb is blocked out by clothes. I don't think the actor will be able to act well in this position, since their ADR wasn't good before, while recorded in on location. I want to get the actor as comfortable as possible in order to do better. What about sitting in a chair with a blanket wrapped around her, like I saw in a tutorial?
Also for Foley some of the sounds I will have to make, I will need a lot of space, and won't be able to put up blankets everywhere I don't think.
Also for Foley some of the sounds I will have to make, I will need a lot of space, and won't be able to put up blankets everywhere I don't think.
You don't put them in the closet, you put the mic right in front where the clothes can absorb sound, then you hang sound blankets (or whatever you have) behind them and to the sides.
Yeah it's just right now I don't have much for hangers. I don't have C stands at the moment, but I'll think of something. Thanks. So you say the Foley artist will also record from far away to get a reverb effect. But wouldn't that likely not match since the reverb of the Foley room is different from the location in the scene?
They also have plenty of sound blankets, etc. to alter the characteristics of the room.
Oh I see, that makes sense. I talked to the actor and she says the best way for her is too watch it on the computer. Would it help if I blanket the floor, and put a blanket over the computer and over her head? I tried recording some of that myself today, but I am not sure if it's dry enough, so that later it will match once I figure out which reverb to add. I need to know ahead of it's matchable.
There are some things to watch out for when recording Foley: You generally don't want the mic too close, otherwise you'll get proximity effect and/or difficulties with perspective when mixing. On the other hand, many Foley sounds are very quiet, so having too much distance between the sound source and the mic is likely to give poor SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio). My solution is carefully judged mic placement and a quiet recording room with plenty of absorption, as well as good quality mic pre-amps which provide a large amount of gain without noise or distortion. I use moveable absorption panels behind the mic (particularly when using a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern) and the computer and any other noise producing equipment needs to be in another room entirely.
I'm sure this type of room set up will be difficult for you to emulate but at least if you know how it should be done, you've got a goal to aim at.
G
Okay thanks. I don't have a lot of blankets right now so I will use what I have. The actress is coming in two days so I hope I get all the dialogue recorded right before she moves back. Is the blanket around her and the blankets on the floor and maybe her seat, good enough?
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Okay the actor is coming in the morning. So just to be clear, the mic goes in the closet then and not the actor? She won't be able to watch the video at the same time then and say her lines over it which she said really helps her. She said the blanket around the head while watching the computer is better for her, but is that a no no?
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The mic goes directly in front of the clothing in the closet. Get the talent in close to the mic; four to six inches, closer if you have problems with ambient reflections. Using whatever you have to further suppress the ambient reflections of the room put a "box" around them. You'll have to improvise.
This is why I harp so much on getting solid production sound. Getting good ADR is hard enough when you have a proper room; your piling on the difficulties when you don't have a proper room and proper equipment like a separate video monitor.
You have to make your own judgement - sound vs. performance. I've found that for many actors watching the video is actually a distraction. I've also found that listen and repeat works well for those without ADR experience; record them performing the line after the production dialog, then slide it back to check the performance.
This is why I harp so much on getting solid production sound. Getting good ADR is hard enough when you have a proper room; your piling on the difficulties when you don't have a proper room and proper equipment like a separate video monitor.
You have to make your own judgement - sound vs. performance. I've found that for many actors watching the video is actually a distraction. I've also found that listen and repeat works well for those without ADR experience; record them performing the line after the production dialog, then slide it back to check the performance.