Read this:
http://cai.ucdavis.edu/waters-sites/gothicnovel/155breport.html
That should give you sufficient foundation.
Solid link. Sounds about right.
What does a movie need to be Goth?
- Thread starter BrownwriterChi
- Start date
Solid link. Sounds about right.
These end up sounding like a combination of the B-Noir from the 30s and the Chinese Wu Shu films. The hero has to die while making up for some horrible deed or unfinished task from their life. This redemptive act makes them a hero.
That isn't what I was trying to say there. Maybe you misunderstood or I misspoke.
Fist off, it's Sleepy Hollow
Well, I guess Burton films (like Sleepy Hollow and Scissorhands) are good to look at, but I'd look more at his Batman films and Sweeney Todd than say, Corpse Bride.
Pan's Labyrinth... I don't think it's gothic in the same sense as a Burton film but it does have very distinct visual styling, look at some of Guillermo Del Toro's other movies - Devil's Backbone and Cronos leap to mind.
The connection is the people who dress like we are talking about eat those movies up with a spoon. I mean jerking off to Nightmare Before Christmas kind of love.
Goth vs. Gothic
Gothic in its original sense meant 'barbaric, crude' [1500's] because the Visigoths sacked Rome and plunged Europe into its Dark Ages (476 ACE). The term was applied to the architecture. Later Gothic tended to refer to the architecture that was heavily Romanesque with large butresses, vaulted ceilings, etc.
I mention this not as a art history lesson but to make the point that the term as evolved to have different meanings while containing the same idea.
Gothic novels tended to use dark, older castles for their ambience. In fact, the gothic novel of the 1800s evolved into a standard format: heroine (most often) is forced to move to a dark, foreboding estate. There she is treated badly. She falls for man who is indifferent to her but comes to love her. Once he starts to love her, he becomes a tragic figure who is often injured, imprisoned, etc. She must affect her own transformation, which leads to freeing herself and her lover. She and/or the lover confront the main villain and destroy him/her. Upon his/her death, the gothic mansion burns or is otherwise destroyed as the couple safely escapes. This pattern will be seen in many of the "gothic books"--Frankenstein, Dracula, etc.
The modern goth movement has tended to focus on the dark, foreboding, death characteristics. These typically appeal to teens. It is not necessarily unhealthy and is often just an expression of their own identity. But for some, it does become unhealthy leading to cutting, suicide, and emotional outbursts. But being 'goth' does not mean 'emotionally labile'. That tends to be labeled 'emo'.
'A Series of Unfortunate Events' by Lemony Snickett is a classic gothic themed story with underdogs and the exploitational villain. The other posts had some descriptions and pics of modern goths. Darkness, night, massive vaulting buildings, oppressed heroes and domineering villains characterize gothic themes overall.
Gothic in its original sense meant 'barbaric, crude' [1500's] because the Visigoths sacked Rome and plunged Europe into its Dark Ages (476 ACE). The term was applied to the architecture. Later Gothic tended to refer to the architecture that was heavily Romanesque with large butresses, vaulted ceilings, etc.
I mention this not as a art history lesson but to make the point that the term as evolved to have different meanings while containing the same idea.
Gothic novels tended to use dark, older castles for their ambience. In fact, the gothic novel of the 1800s evolved into a standard format: heroine (most often) is forced to move to a dark, foreboding estate. There she is treated badly. She falls for man who is indifferent to her but comes to love her. Once he starts to love her, he becomes a tragic figure who is often injured, imprisoned, etc. She must affect her own transformation, which leads to freeing herself and her lover. She and/or the lover confront the main villain and destroy him/her. Upon his/her death, the gothic mansion burns or is otherwise destroyed as the couple safely escapes. This pattern will be seen in many of the "gothic books"--Frankenstein, Dracula, etc.
The modern goth movement has tended to focus on the dark, foreboding, death characteristics. These typically appeal to teens. It is not necessarily unhealthy and is often just an expression of their own identity. But for some, it does become unhealthy leading to cutting, suicide, and emotional outbursts. But being 'goth' does not mean 'emotionally labile'. That tends to be labeled 'emo'.
'A Series of Unfortunate Events' by Lemony Snickett is a classic gothic themed story with underdogs and the exploitational villain. The other posts had some descriptions and pics of modern goths. Darkness, night, massive vaulting buildings, oppressed heroes and domineering villains characterize gothic themes overall.
No, I tend to see themes are reinterpreted (I wrote a really fun paper on Sci fi/post-apocalyptic/western/noir as a temporal continuum of the same themes. What I'm saying specifically is that parts seem to have great similarity to the wu shu films from China and the ambiance of the B-Noir films of the 30's that were churned out quickly to fill the packages theater owners were forced to purchase form a particular studio to get the big block buster films - these became a popular type of cinema during the depression as the lead characters tended to push back at authority in a way that the audiences liked to see. Their depression and angst and the new ability for the audiences to empathize with bad people standing up against worse people in a redemptive way brought these low budget movies to the forefront of popular culture.
"Goth" films seem to share characteristics with these themes and aesthetics. That's what I understood from reading your detail (which I whole-heartedly agreed with).