What can I do to improve my fight scenes?

H

harmonica44

I was wondering what could I do differently to make a better impression with a much bigger, much higher budgeted project?

Here's a clip of one fight I shot. The sound is not finished yet so please excuse the poor sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQM2_Ytv204

So far I have asked my friends and fellow filmmaking collaborators. They said that I need more camera movement and the violence just doesn't look real enough. Like if I take out frames to make characters look like they are moving faster, they can tell. And I just need to have my actors hit at each other faster and harder.

Anything else that can help? Thanks.
 
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Fight scenes are super tough on a budget. Sound will make a huge difference. A weakly thrown punch can suddenly start looking pretty good with decent sound effects behind it.

You need to have more dramatic choreography. Your characters often look like they are just clawing ineffectually at one another rather than going out to inflict damage. Pick the hard hits you want to emphasise and make sure those moments really play.

I think the scene goes on for too long which ties into what I was saying above.

Spatial orientation here is often confusing. You're dancing across the line or right on it a lot which gets difficult to follow. Possibly in context the scene would be more understandable but just watching this I'm struggling to always fully understand the location.

If you don't have people to do good action then just focus on the person striking or the person getting hit. Don't worry about the action so much as focusing on one or the other actors faces and really feeling the pain through their expression and the sound effect.
 
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Okay thanks. The reason why the characters are clawing is because they are in experienced fighters. So it was done on purpose but perhaps that was a bad idea.

I already saw that LOSSES tutorial and that's where I got the idea for that fight actually. They say in the tutorial to take frames out, but I am told that taking frames out is noticeable, so maybe my actors were still not moving fast enough?
 
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What you have isn't that bad. I would re-edit to tighten it up a bit, and perhaps remove a couple of confusing shots (like the weird "upside down" shot in the bathroom) but for the most part, it works.

All that said, WHY ARE YOU STILL WORKING ON THIS FILM???? MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Oh okay. The thought the upside down shot, made the character's dying, more effective, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't. And I am just working on the movie for practice, and editing sound effects. I just posted this an example of what I can do better next time. Aside from what I can do better in this film, what can I do better in my next script, with fight scenes?
 
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I thought it was pretty good, once the Foley work is all done, it should be pretty good actually. There were some obvious lighting issues, and some cases where I could see things were being pulled at the last minute.

The biggest issue for me was how long the woman could incapacitate the perp for. That really didn't work for me at all, he should have been able to overpower her much more quickly. The scene could still work, she gets lucky and before he can recover his wits, she has virtually had the knife dropped in her hand and gets a lucky hit in. But I completely didn't buy it being cut as long as that scene was.

I kinda liked the upside down shot, it added to the confusion of things as the other perps entered and then settled on the body much as their realization of what has happened would settle on them. Again, something sound could smooth over a bit with ominous stinger playing. Not sure. Overall, it could do with a bit of editing down also.

CraigL
 
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harmonica44 said:
I was wondering what could I do differently to make a better impression with a much bigger, much higher budgeted project?

Here's a clip of one fight I shot. The sound is not finished yet so please excuse the poor sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQM2_Ytv204

So far I have asked my friends and fellow filmmaking collaborators. They said that I need more camera movement and the violence just doesn't look real enough. Like if I take out frames to make characters look like they are moving faster, they can tell. And I just need to have my actors hit at each other faster and harder.

Anything else that can help? Thanks.
Click to expand...

As you know, I am from the uber real school of film making... Get a real knife and get her to actually stab him in the head. Then use real baseball bats and get the actors to really wallop each other.

The cost savings are huge as you will have less actors to pay (they will be dead), no VFX budget, tremendous press coverage (how much recognition), a real ambulance and police turning up... I feel you could get into Sundance with that kind of look.
 
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Do you really want to make it better in the future?

Rent a better location.

Hire professional actors.

Hire a stunt coordinator.

Hire stunt people.

Hire a professional effects coordinator.

Hire a professional DP.

Hire a professional editor.

Hire a professional sound supervisor.
 
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Okay thanks. Next time I won't settle for less than professional. If someone drops out, I am canceling the whole project, and recasting again later, till I find a replacement if need be. No need to continue a project for the actors, without pros to help out, it's just a waist of money.

I can't get stunt people though, as in their just aren't any near where I live. But a lot of actors don't mind doing their own it seems, like in El Mariachi or the original Last House on the Left, it looks like the real actors did the stunts, and not stunt people.
 
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For the record, I wouldn't make films if this is how I'd been forced to learn to do it... simply financially unrealistic. Make a bunch of shorts, learn what to do/not do... then make your feature and sell it for home video/online video to a distributor... for more money than you spent on it, content quality aside, you'll be making a profit.

Alcove Audio said:
Do you really want to make it better in the future?

Rent a better location.

Hire professional actors.

Hire a stunt coordinator.

Hire stunt people.

Hire a professional effects coordinator.

Hire a professional DP.

Hire a professional editor.

Hire a professional sound supervisor.
Click to expand...
 
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The questions are much better now than they started out... the difficulty seems to still be confidence. May well be jumping into the feature fund deep end problems as well, but I did that and came out the other end much better for it (although I'd project managed extensively at that point).

To the OP, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNdCCzS8E3w
Mr. Nguyen has some fantastic tutorials on fighting for film.
 
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knightly said:
............... the difficulty seems to still be confidence. ..............
Click to expand...

Because he has too little experience to be really confident.
That's why almost all of us say:
"Shoot stuff! Test ideas! Make simple shorts!"

Besides that H44 seems to think in 'yes/no' only, without being flexible and creative enough to improvise.
At least that's the impression I get.
His last comment in this thread was about: "So next time I'll cancel if someone drops out."
I can't even start counting the number of questions about: 'should I cancel the shoot, because of....?' :lol:

If fight scenes are difficult, make something short and simple without fight scenes to become more experienced and more confident about all the skills you will also need when shooting fight scenes.
A new simple idea:
3 actors (or 2)
3 locations (max)
Most part: woman walking sad on the streets/a long the water/highway. Sad music in the score.
Flashback: in a fight with (ex)boyfriend (not a fight scene! maybe just 1 slab, besides smashing stuff and yelling in a living room: cold be your place!)
She starts crying (as she walks outside).
In the end someone says something that lifts her spirit. Or she drowns herself (depending on your mood ;) then you need only 2 actors) or jumps from a bridge. (No need to show the drop! Suggest things!)

Length: 2-4 minutes. Shorter is better, but too short will lack time to convey the emotions to the public.
Writing: 1 day
Storyboarding: few hours only, but scout your locations.
Shooting: 1 day
Edit: 2 days

Style: you decide. (I'd go for handheld argument in living room, (mostly) tripod on the streets searching for poetic, desolate compositions that make her small combining with close ups that can be out of focus sometimes: keep it calm when shooting handheld.)

Result: moody video in portfolio. And more experience.

Next step:
Make a fight scene.
Keep the plot simple.
Focus on the fight.

But first: step 0:
finish your short, stop editing or trying the find a way to fix things.
Add proper sound and it will be good enough for a first short.
Is it perfect? No, but you learnt from it!
 
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Okay thanks. As Knightly said, confidence is a big issue with me. If I could find more crew it would help. The worst part is not having anyone to do sound. I can't direct the actors, and concentrate on them, and move the camera while shooting, and boom with the mic all at the same time of course. So my next project will be testing out those car chase special effects, I've discussed in another thread.

I've been on a few sets so far, but did not learn much. For one thing, the sound guys on those sets made mistakes such as placing a shotgun mic in between people, instead of aiming at their mouths. Or not having and sound people at all, and the producers reason was, he couldn't find any and is going to do all ADR instead.

Also the sets I have been on so far all shot with at least three cameras simultaneously. Where as for my projects, a lot of camera angles I have in mind, would be impossible for three, as you would see cameras, in the background of most of the opposite shots. The multicam set up does not teach me as much, since I want to work with different angles, and therefore would have to learn on a very different shooting schedule therefore.

There is a movie being shot where I live this summer, and the are looking for cast and crew. I jumped on board, and the way it has been described it sounds like a whole feature. I am hoping to get on. If they have a sound person, I hope I can have future access to him/her.
 
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