Video Noise?

[wheatgrinder]

In this footage I see little crawly dots.. is this noise? What causes it?
http://www.vimeo.com/8712195

The vimeo compression seems to have helped it a bit, if you take the time to download the .MOV you'll see more of the noise..

Camera: Sony DCR-TRV27 (consumer handycam)


Thanks

 

[Will Vincent]

Looks like noise caused by video gain. How you avoid it is using more light.

You could probably remove all or most of it with AE's grain removal tools, but be aware that render times for grain removal are painfully long

 

[wheatgrinder]

Thanks Will,
I thought it was pretty well lit, but as you may know I'm still figuring lighting out. Am I to expect a certain amount of grain from my little cam? (I have a burning desire to buy a Panasonic DVC30 for $600, on my local graigslist!) Stop me please!

Ill check into the AE tools..

 

[Samiammi]

Yeah, Will's got it - I usually don't have my gain more than 3/4 of the way up or the image looks like crap - doesn't matter if you've got HD, if you've got that grain it may as well be VHS. A lot of that is determined by the lux rating of the camera - my personal camera has a terrible low lux rating so I generally compensate by over lighting and then dimming down the iris to reach an appropriate level... which is pretty pathetic, and would get me brutally murdered by any just about any gaffer, buttttt - the resulting footage looks decent - in fact, funny story - I'm shooting an ultra low budget movie - we shot an indoor night sequence (a break in) - the talent was asking if they needed to have their flashlights on because it looked like daylight - I had to show them the monitor just to get them to believe I wasn't BSing everything.

 

[Will Vincent]

It is possible you'll always get a certain amount of noise, due simply to the fact that you're using a single chip camera.

Contrary to seemingly popular belief, proper lighting for video generally involves MORE light than lighting for film. Just because you see a picture in the camera doesn't mean its a good picture.

On another note, while that's a pretty decent price for the DVC30, assuming it's in good condition, I wouldn't be putting any money toward a standard def camera personally, especially when for roughly the same amount that dvc30 would cost you can get into one of the canon HV's that have a stunning picture quality..

 

[wheatgrinder]

whew! That was close.. thanks.

 

[knightly]

Gain on 0 always! Light well, then adjust the exposure in camera to the lighting. If you are wide open on the iris and are still having problems getting an image in the camera, you need more light - period.

1) If you've under lit and have to bring the image up in post, you'll get grain.
2) If the gain is up on the camera, you'll have grain.

The only way to solve the problem is to anticipate by over lighting slightly, then dropping the shadows and mids in post using a color corrector. Just like in film, fill in the shadows, you shouldn't have any "True" deep black shadows in camera... they should just barely touch black in camera.

The highlights should never cross "pure" white either... the solution is to light the dark parts of your image to the point where you can properly expose for the subject on the key light side while still being able to see into the shadows. This will give you the most freedom in post to correct the image to your tastes. The image you capture will look a bit washed out, but it's supposed to.

Darkening doesn't increase grain, lightening does. Avoid having to lighten in post.

 

[wheatgrinder]

You guys are great. Thanks for the education!

 

[knightly]

I have some stills of underexposed footage from our last shoot... and some color correction used to get around it:

The first is the uncorrected footage (widescreened)
Second is the color corrector pushed to the limits of viewability
Third I applied a bunch of stuff to de-emphasize the graininess bet keep as much detail as possible.
- Second copy of the image B/W and blurred to soften it a bit (fake diffusion on the image, it's a bit strong on this image)
- Correction only on flesh tones to push then brighter
- Correction on everything but to push it darker and blue/green
- An oval vignette just around the face of the actor with a strong blur to the edges, set to just barely there to push all the other parts of the image darker to get rid of the grain there.

 

[FilmmakerG]

You could probably remove all or most of it with AE's grain removal tools, but be aware that render times for grain removal are painfully long

That would explain why a simple 2 minute test, which I used the grain removal for, of mine took ten hours to render.

 

[chilipie]

If you're still looking for a software solution, try Neat Video. I've only used the demo version but I was absolutely amazed by it - completely transformed footage shot outside at night on a single-chip camera. It's not free, but I think the price is very reasonable considering its capabilities.

 

[wheatgrinder]

On my little SD Handycam, does the "exposure" setting translate to gain?


Thanks

 

[Will Vincent]

It's hard to say. It's possible, though it could also be controlling an iris. My guess is that your camera probably has auto gain control that can't be disabled.