cinematography video noise? (channel)
- Thread starter dvdguy
- Start date
SONY DCR-SR57
Yergh. Blah. Ech.
This camera is going to cause you nothing but pain. I don't see anything about manual exposure control in the technical specs, and that means you can't even get consistent exposure levels when things are moving around in your shot -- the camera will be constantly adjusting the exposure.
You'll want to double-check your manual, but I don't think manual exposure is possible on that camera.
The other drawback is the 1/8" image sensor. That's tiny. Take a look at a ruler. See the 1/8" mark? That's how wide your sensor is. It's so small that very little light hits it which means a lot of amplification has to be added by the camera and that's going to give you grain in just about every lighting condition you'll be shooting in.
If you're serious about shooting films, you'll need a camera that at minimum lets you set the following manually:
The preferred list of manual controls is, of course:
The bigger the sensor, the better. I'd recommend not going smaller than 1/4", and 1/2" is where things start to get interesting.
Yergh. Blah. Ech.
This camera is going to cause you nothing but pain. I don't see anything about manual exposure control in the technical specs, and that means you can't even get consistent exposure levels when things are moving around in your shot -- the camera will be constantly adjusting the exposure.
You'll want to double-check your manual, but I don't think manual exposure is possible on that camera.
The other drawback is the 1/8" image sensor. That's tiny. Take a look at a ruler. See the 1/8" mark? That's how wide your sensor is. It's so small that very little light hits it which means a lot of amplification has to be added by the camera and that's going to give you grain in just about every lighting condition you'll be shooting in.
If you're serious about shooting films, you'll need a camera that at minimum lets you set the following manually:
Shutter speed
Exposure level
White balance
Exposure level
White balance
The preferred list of manual controls is, of course:
ISO
Shutter Speed
Aperature
White Balance
Shutter Speed
Aperature
White Balance
The bigger the sensor, the better. I'd recommend not going smaller than 1/4", and 1/2" is where things start to get interesting.
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You might be in luck. Page 80 of the manual has some instructions for setting your exposure. It will still be a pain, but it looks settable by hand and that's good.
Oh yeah! I figured Id get that LOL. The cam sucks I know
. LOL. Actually it does have this on manual control: EXPOSURE, WHITE BALANCE, idk about shutter speed though (I dont think so). So yeah I probably dont even have the minimum. But atleast Im learning. Atleast the cam is good for that! lol. And I always keep AUTO EXPOSURE, cause im not really sure how to handle it depending on the situation. explain? 
I AGREE. The image sensor is small as a friggin peanut!! Hmm, well, I could still try and improve my shots with greater lighting and use that program you mentioned earlier.
What do you think of Canon XL2?
On the side note: this might be noobish, but what difference does the manual setting of exposure make? I mean. too bright isnt too good, or looks just a tad weird. The colors are too strong.
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Oh yeah! I figured Id get that LOL. The cam sucks I know
Actually, it's a great camera for this because you get to learn very quickly what sort of capabilities you actually need in a camera through negative reinforcement: "Gosh darn it! Why doesn't my camera do this very useful thing I want it to do!" you'll cry, and then you'll know what you want. My first video camera was a Sony Digital8 Handycam. It had no manual white balance. It was awful.
I wound up only shooting a single short film with it.And I always keep AUTO EXPOSURE, cause im not really sure how to handle it depending on the situation. explain?
Go to your nearest photography store and get a cheap 18% Gray Card. Use it in combination with your camera's spot meter to correctly set your exposure and then leave it in manual. You can nudge it up or down when necessary, but always start by using the gray card to get your initial exposure setting.
The reason this works is that the auto exposure on your camera averages together all the light in your scene and adjusts off of that. If you're shooting a regular daytime shot, all the light in a stereotypical frame will be at an 18% reflectance so the auto exposure is set to look for that. The 18% Gray Card will then let you get a correct exposure setting from your camera's spot meter in whatever light you're shooting in.
What do you think of Canon XL2?
A good, but old, camera. If it comes down to just not having much money, go for the best thing you can afford that fulfills at least the minimum required list of settings you want. It will also limit you to shooting in standard definition in a 4:3 aspect ratio (the 16:9 format is a post-processing cheat and you'll lose some image quality). I personally prefer 16:9 because I find it more aesthetically pleasing when composing my shots. DSLR cameras naturally shoot in an aspect ratio that is closer to widescreen than they are to 4:3 and I learned a lot about image composition just through playing around with still photography.
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Actually, it's a great camera for this because you get to learn very quickly what sort of capabilities you actually need in a camera through negative reinforcement: "Gosh darn it! Why doesn't my camera do this very useful thing I want it to do!" you'll cry, and then you'll know what you want. My first video camera was a Sony Digital8 Handycam. It had no manual white balance. It was awful.
Go to your nearest photography store and get a cheap 18% Gray Card. Use it in combination with your camera's spot meter to correctly set your exposure and then leave it in manual. You can nudge it up or down when necessary, but always start by using the gray card to get your initial exposure setting.
The reason this works is that the auto exposure on your camera averages together all the light in your scene and adjusts off of that. If you're shooting a regular daytime shot, all the light in a stereotypical frame will be at an 18% reflectance so the auto exposure is set to look for that. The 18% Gray Card will then let you get a correct exposure setting from your camera's spot meter in whatever light you're shooting in.
A good, but old, camera. If it comes down to just not having much money, go for the best thing you can afford that fulfills at least the minimum required list of settings you want. It will also limit you to shooting in standard definition in a 4:3 aspect ratio (the 16:9 format is a post-processing cheat and you'll lose some image quality). I personally prefer 16:9 because I find it more aesthetically pleasing when composing my shots. DSLR cameras naturally shoot in an aspect ratio that is closer to widescreen than they are to 4:3 and I learned a lot about image composition just through playing around with still photography.
I AGREE with the first paragraph all the way
. through mistakes, youll improve. Lol, no manual white balance. now thats weird..and thats a really funny short - good work man! Oh yeah, regarding these "gray cards". Why 18%? why not more, why not less?
. What difference will it make.Hmm, perhaps a visual demonstration would make it more easy on how to do it
hehe. UPDATE: I think I found somthin useful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5B4McYPlsI heard its a great camera on other forums. It has all those preferred settings that you listed or I might be wrong. Which camera has all of them, and is a good price?
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I AGREE with the first paragraph all the way
Thanks! That film was shot during a raging drunken party, so in every shot, just outside of the frame is a bunch of drunken partygoes yelling "what are these weird dudes doing??". Strangest shoot of my life.
Oh yeah, regarding these "gray cards". Why 18%? why not more, why not less?
It's because your camera's auto-exposure system works by treating an 18% reflectance level as "normal" and adjusts for that. This is because the most common use of cameras happens outdoors, and the stereotypical outdoor shot reflects 18% of the light that hits it. Since the auto-exposure system is hardwired to work at 18% reflectance, this means that you can aim it at an 18% gray card and get the correct exposure for whatever lighting you're shooting in:
- Put the camera in "spot meter" mode and place it in the spot you'll be shooting from.
- Put the gray card where the subject of the shot will be. To average the light, angle the gray card so it faces halfway between the brightest light source and the camera's lens. If you're exposing for ambient light, face the gray card directly towards the camera.
- Make sure the center of the camera is aimed at the gray card and activate the camera's spot meter exposure. It will read the amount of light just at the center point (this lets you have the gray card only take up a portion of the frame instead of filling up the whole thing) and set your camera's exposure.
- Verify that your camera stays in manual exposure so that its exposure setting will be correct even if you move the camera around.
- If the exposure still looks a little too dark or too bright, nudge the manual exposure setting up or down until you have something that looks right.
- Shoot your scene!
I heard its a great camera on other forums. It has all those preferred settings that you listed or I might be wrong. Which camera has all of them, and is a good price?
The XL2 has manual everything, so if it's in your cost range and you don't mind shooting in standard def, have at it. I don't think it works off of "ISO" settings, but you can definitely set your exposure levels by hand. It also has built in ND filters which can be a godsend if you're shooting in direct sunlight.
No idea what a good price would be. I only recently got back in the camera market after a long stint of being dirt poor. I'm back in software dev now and can once again afford fun toys, but I'm still getting a handle on what stuff costs nowadays.
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LOL, that is a tad odd
that whole shoot.Oh what do you mean for ambient lighting? I mean what difference will it make from the first option?
I hope Ill do this right
I posted a video in my previous post or so. That should do it too? Well, I thought that Canon XL2 also shoots in HD? Hmm.. And no ISO settings? Darn, I really need that so I wont have any grain problems etc. Hmm, I need one with those options. Oh well, anyone? Btw, do you know at what gain/ISO are video cameras like the Canon XL2 set to?
Escher, u were dirt poor? Im glad its working out for you now.
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Ambient is all the non-directional light -- for instance light bounced from walls or whatever environment you're shooting in. Think of a very cloudy day as being 100% ambient light: the light doesn't come from any particular direction because it's coming in from all directions.
If you set your exposure and most of the shot is too dim, then try re-exposing for ambient light instead.
That camera is pretty old and only shoots in standard definition. It does allow for lens changes and every setting can be put into manual mode. They're solid cameras and when they came out they pretty much changed the face of indie DV filmmaking.
There will always be gain problems. ISO is just one way of measuring the amplification of the sensors image signal. The reason I like ISO settings is that those combined with shutter speeds and f-stops gives you a solid, consistent language for dealing with exposure but even if the XL2 doesn't measure the gain via ISO numbers, you will still have the ability to directly manipulate the amount of gain.
Escher, u were dirt poor? Im glad its working out for you now.
Yep. After the dot-com crash finalized in 2001 I moved back to Montana and was a low-level tech support guy, installed big 6-foot printers, and then spent two years working in a video store.
I finally got back out to Seattle and am no longer starving and broke. Yay!
Still have the ability eh? Yeah, you mean through shutter speeds and f-stops?
I just want to make something with this camera - a nice short.
Now thats what I call heart and determination!
never give up..Oh, and, ill try to update with some new pics, basically the same just so the lighting is gonna much much different
more stronger overall, and some props aswell etc.
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Why 18%? why not more, why not less?
18% gray is the b/w equivalent of caucasian skin tone... so setting your exposure to an 18% gray will ensure that your frame is correctly exposed for your primary subject's skin (assuming they're lighter colored ~85% white -- pure black is 0%). Our eyes/brains try to expose to this same level, so subjects with darker skin are expected to fall lower in the exposure (around 60-65%). Exposing to 18% gray ensures that the flesh tones fall in the range our eye/brains expect them to in order to look "Normal".