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Trying to apply gang psychology to my script.

H

harmonica44

I was reading on gang rules and usually if a member wants to leave a gang he has to commit a 'blood out'. Which will prevent him or her from snitching afterwords hopefully. However since all the physical evidence of the murder will be covered up, how do gangs have collateral, on those who want to leave. The gang cannot incriminate a person who rats on him, if the rat committed murder, because all the evidence will typically be gone, unless gangs in real life, keep peaces of physical evidence as collateral, on their potential rats, but that would be risky, having murder evidence stored away, that can be found.
 
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Sounds like a great premise (and title) for a film! Write it, make it the focus of the script, not just a part of it -- I'd watch that film that I just had play through my head ;)

Perhaps a rival gang fighting for territory seeks the stash of a rival gang's blood out evidence to incriminate them.
 
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I'd say that if the police find a murder without a motive and leads, they leave it there. Until someday when they get an anonymous call about who did it. Then they have a main suspect and corners their suspect who has a motive, no alibi etc.
 
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Even if the gang leader did make that call, to punish a rat, there would still be no physical evidence, and you cannot use the phone call as evidence, since it's hearsay, without further proof. So the concept of a blood out seems to accomplish nothing, and I don't see why it's realistically used.
 
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Well in my script the gang leader is a more mature criminal mastermind around the age of 40-50, and the one who wants to leave the gang is a dirty police Sergeant. So they would be both smarter. What would you have to do to leave a smart gang?
 
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A dirty cop is a dirty cop, not a gang member. If he's found out, even for protecting or turning a blind eye for a fee, he loses everything (pension, family, etc.) and ends up in prison where cops, dirty or not, have a very bad time. Besides, someone who is smart will leave an information time-bomb behind - names, dates, evidence - to be delivered in the event of his demise. Gang members aren't that smart. Street gangs substitute violence/terrorism for brains. At the "cartel" level there is no out.

K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple, Stupid!!! (I'm not being insulting; I tell this to myself every day, except I replace "Stupid" with "Sh!thead.")

Your whole story is:

Gang member wants out

Must "blood out"

Committing the crime will negate the reasons s/he wants to get out

What does s/he do?

That's a very indie story. It's a character study. It keeps your cast small and your budget low.

If you want to go Hollywood... Whichever decision is made, everyone comes after him/her and the action/adventure bang-bang-shoot'em-up commences. You'll need a buddy...
 
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I was always under the impression that most gangs don't alow anyone to get out? I mean, yeah there are a few here and there that make it out and become community activists but those are pretty few and far between.

Also, are you using the dirty cop/gang member angle that is also part of "The Departed"?
 
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I asked a real cop, and he says that real gangs have blood outs. Of course there may be some that you don't get out of for sure, but I didn't ask him that. I also didn't think to ask him how a blood out works if all the evidence is intended to be destroyed presumably. Didn't think of that till later.

I wouldn't say I am doing it quite like The Departed, as the character in mine, is very different than the Matt Damon character, if that's who you mean.
 
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You can always call your local RCMP office. Ask to talk to a detective in the gang unit. When you get the detective on the phone ask him for general info on gangs and "blooding out". Tell him you are writing a script and you need info on how it all works. As long as you are not asking for facts on an actual case he will more than likly help you out.

One way he also can "blood out" is take the physical evadence, hold it. If the rat talks a phone call to the cops on who it is and where to find the evedence. For example in a storage unit rented in that persons name.
 
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me-only-me said:
One way he also can "blood out" is take the physical evadence, hold it. If the rat talks a phone call to the cops on who it is and where to find the evedence. For example in a storage unit rented in that persons name.
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This. Well, I'd assume anyway, never having been in a gang. In order for a blood out to work, there HAS to be physical evidence...it's sort of blackmail, after all. The SCENE of the murder should be scrubbed, but the actual evidence can't be destroyed.

I like knightly's idea about a rival gang going after the stash! They'd instantly gain power over the former members, and possibly the active members if they could tie them to said stash!
 
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Yeah I can have it so the gang is ready to take evidence after the murder. I mean this guy is not just a regular gang member, he is a police sergeant so he knows things about how the law works, and how evidence works presumably. So he cannot be fooled into thinking the blood out will legally work, compared to fooling a lot of gang members, who may not know better. So the gang would have to come with a blood out that's enough to make this cop, believe it will work, if he does not keep his mouth shut.
 
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harmonica44 said:
So [the police sergeant] cannot be fooled into thinking the blood out will legally work, compared to fooling a lot of gang members, who may not know better.
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Is this so that the plot will work?

Otherwise, don't assume the gangs are ignorant of the law and police procedure.
It's organized crime with a large network of intel gathering and a years of accumulated intel collection.
Senior gang members are likely very well informed of the limitations of the law.

I don't see what's so difficult.

- Gang A captures member of Gang B.
- Gang A captain hands police sergeant a pistol.
- Gang A captain takes police sergeant's cellphone and sweaty shirt.
- Gang A captain video records police sergeant shooting Gang B member in head.
- Sergeant has "blooded out".
- Gang A keeps pistol & cell phone, wraps them up in sweaty shirt, bags them in a ziplock.
- Everyone goes their separate ways.

Or some variation of that.

Is the "blood out" the end of the first or second act?
 
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Would a police sergeant be stupid enough to allow a gang to have damning evidence on him? I don't think so somehow.. If he's undercover and the gang don't know, then he'd either be pulled out, or the police would come after the gang, or the evidence of his 'blood out' would be tainted so that it couldn't be traced back to him (don't underestimate the power of friendship in the police force). If they know, then he's a liability. How does the gang know that he's not going to snitch on them in his day-to-day work? Seems like a really easy way to bust a gang - go undercover as a 'dirty cop'. Snitch to the gang on some minor cop activity so they trust you, then when they plan a major heist, be there waiting with the rest of the police force. If they really were an intelligent gang, they wouldn't have made the dirty cop privy to any sensitive information because of the high risk involved. Therefore, that would eliminate the need for a 'blood out' as he wouldn't know anything that could indite them.

I think the fear that if you snitched on a gang, they'd slowly kill your family and then rip you apart piece by piece would be more than enough to keep you from snitching.. Especially if you don't know all the members.
 
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Yeah but I figure they must have some idea of the law because they are still involved with their cases, which are being handled by lawyers and judges all the time.

The phone, and shirt evidence idea sounds good, or something like that. And yes they could kill him, and loved ones, if he snitches rather than just keep the evidence. I don't really have a reason why the let a cop privy to sensitive information. This is pretty much the end of the second act.
 
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Sounds like you're making the final episode of 'the Shield' ;)
(Just kidding, but this sounds like the crap Vic can get in, because he his dirty.)

I'm not into gang stuff, but it seems like the starting point of this idea has a lot of dramatic possibilities: from small (too slow? ;) ) indie-style (where the blood out is the dilemma) to insane action (where the blood out is the starting point of a action driving adventure).
 
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