Tips for shooting longer dialogue scene - Outside

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alexo

Hi everyone,

I have spent the past few weeks directing a 12 page web series pilot, and we are on hiatus for a few weeks as a lot of the cast and crew are busy finishing up college semester work. I`ve already shot the first 8 and 4/8 pages of the script so far over the past few Saturdays. Shooting at around 3 - 5 pages a day, depending on the scene`s complexity.

I wanted to ask you guys to see if you could share some of your experiences shooting scenes outside, and what approach you found worked best, and how many shooting hours it took you.

The last scene I am looking to shoot for the pilot is an outside dialogue scene between two characters, no complicated blocking at all, very talky scene, running 3 and 3/8 pages. With the winter growing closer, limiting the amount of hours of daylight, I`ve been trying to go at this scene with the right approach, and trying to figure out if I can fit this scene into one day, or if I`ll have split the shoot into two days, due to limited daylight.

I have been looking into shooting on an overcast day to minimize the change of light throughout the day, which I know has its own set of issues that can crop up (white balance, changing color temperature, etc)

It would really help a lot to have some first hand accounts to work off of.

Thank you
 
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From experience: use a mic with a windscreen, use the sun to light your actors, bring bounce boards, shoot during a time of day when the sun's movement won't be too noticeable

Other than that, I kinda agree with brianluce. You mentioned all the technical stuff you're thinking about but you never mentioned anything about the most important thing, which is what's happening in the scene. You even said yourself that's it's a talky scene scene, so maybe can trim so of that. And rehearsing before wouldn't hurt. People are more willing to forgive minor mistakes that happen outside if your characters/dialog/story are good
 
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In Gran Torino they kinda cheated the sun issue for the garage sequence which was a nice talky bit.
Gran-Torino---002.jpg


Would you be able to cheat your full 3min conversation in a similar fashion, say, in an alley between buildings, on a porch, or beneath a tree canopy at a park?


Theoretically, to shoot a classic over the shoulder (OTS) conversation between two people requires the same delivery of the lines twice, shot once OTS of left actor and OTS of right actor.
Practice, practice, practice beforehand.
Set up, shoot OTS left, reposition camera+tripod, shoot OTS right.
Collect some close up reaction shots of faces, eyes, and hands.

From what little I've shot I'm guessing it'll be an hour on site just to set up and then record ten to fifteen minutes of material like this, break down, pack up & split.

Think of it as two three minute shoots + filler shots, AKA coverage.
 
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Lot's of practice with actors before hand minimizes takes.

Multiple cameras minimize takes (especially outside where it's 99% natural light).

Detailed shot list and moving on after the first good take minimizes setups/takes.

Shooting in a naturally shaded area, under a lot of trees or in an alley helps continuity, you don't see the light jump all over.

Also, in addition to shortening the script, does it HAVE to be outside? That's fine if it does, just asking.

I think with the right cast/crew and considering it's only dialogue (no crazy action) I think you could pull off 3 pages in 4-5 hours of shooting.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
I think with the right cast/crew and considering it's only dialogue (no crazy action) I think you could pull off 3 pages in 4-5 hours of shooting.
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Hi, Paul -
Hey, sorry to hear about all the garbage youtube is giving you over releases and such.
I only got to see one of your videos (The Exchange I think it was), but am looking forward to seeing the rest when I have some time.

You've clearly shot a helluva lot more than I have yet to.
What activities consistantly suck up time on a shoot?
Just organizing everyone and/or camera+tripod set up with onsite bocking/background figuring?

I'm kinduva runnin'Ngunnin' sort of guy, but I'd like to get a good idea of the things I'm likely skipping/missing.

Thanks.
 
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Hey Ray-

Yeah thanks man. I'm sure it'll work out.

We've actually been doing the shorts smoothing out our set time so when we do a feature the whole team is ready to go and we can hammer it out without a lot of delay on set.

The things that have slowed us down the most is not enough leadership and not enough direction.

The best times I've had on set is when I had a solid AD with me who could look at the shot list and keep stuff organized while I worked on the Art stuff with the DP and actors. I can do all of that, it just takes WAY more time because I have to communicate everything to everyone instead of dividing it up. You need more than one solid leader on set. Each dept needs it's own leader and then the one guy on set who is over them. Team members that are driven help too. You can buy driven talent all day long, but on the free level you just have to hunt out the right people. The guys that have been a part of all of our productions and are Invision veterans are that way, but there's always some new people (which is great, not complaining) that don't know the flow of things and sit around and chat at the worst times. That's when your AD comes in handy. When you do it right, it's almost like having a good cop/bad cop on set. Not that extreme, but people get a little agitated from the guy that's always telling them to quit slacking off (in a nice way) and when that's the guy asking you to read a line different that impacts the result.

Second, lack of direction. One thing that we have YET to do is a complete storyboard for a shoot. I know it's been debated here that a shot-list is ok and it may be, but we're doing the storyboard thing for the next shoot for this reason: it tells every dept what to do without saying a word. The DP knows what angle to set up for get and how to set the lights, the art dept knows what costumes and props are needed, audio has an idea of what to prepare for (mic distance, etc) and everyone on set knows where they need to be. At the beginning of the day, the Director, DP and AD look at the Shot list and storyboard and shooting schedule, confirm that we're doing these scenes in this order and everyone goes to work. The AD goes to town getting people going and doing the organizational side. The DP works with the camera op and gaffers and sets the look, and (after makeup and wardrobe) the director gets a chance to work with actors on lines before cameras roll.

I guess who i'm referring to as AD is really more of a Production Manager or Line Producer, but since our crew is still relatively small it's ofter then same person or us.

It takes time getting to that spot where the set flows smoothly. We're still working on it and we're really trying to get as efficient as possible, then we'll slow down and work on crafting every shot and every line because we can afford the time to do it that was previously used organizing the team and trying to get everyone on the same page.

One thing that's helping our team is that there's not one guy that does one role. i started the group with our man DP, but as the team has grown we've made place for their dreams too. Like this last shoot (still in post) the guy that's gaffed for us in the past directed, our Camera Op DP'd, I took on the production manager/AD role, and the guys with more experience helped the guys trying to build it. The next shoot I'm strictly producing and one of our screenwriters (and AD's) is directing. Not only does everyone get a chance to flex their filmmaking muscles in roles they want to do eventually, but by walking in each other's shoes we learn what you can expect out of a role, how to better communicate, etc.

I talk about the Invision team a lot, I know. But I love the guys, they really are family and because of everything that all of us put into it it's growing and will be able to do some big stuff in the future. I'm blessed.

And that was probably WAY more than the question "What activities consistantly suck up time on a shoot?" warranted, but hey :)
 
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PaulGriffith said:
And that was probably WAY more than the question "What activities consistantly suck up time on a shoot?" warranted, but hey :)
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What a freaking F A N T A S T I C! reply!

I sincerely appreciate the time you put into putting these thoughts on your experiences down.

Nah, this is great!
Gold.

I find this very useful to develop some gauge for context of how many people in your or someone's (maybe mine, someday!) cast & crew you gotta work with to produce a specific result.

It seems the productivity scale kinda edges up not (necessarily) in a smooth upward slide, but more along a sorta herky-jerky ascent:
- One man crew has ultimate control, but man it goes slow as set&shot complexity increase.
- Two man camera & audio guy crew can increase the product's quality, but not necessarily shorten the time.
* * * Productivity Maxim: Twice the help x half the effort = same result faster. Twice the help x full effort = twice the result, but takes just as much time. * * *
- Three man camera/audio/director (or DA/PA) crew increases the complexity of what's going on on the set, so now you can either get the same quality done faster - or - some multiple of a quality increase at the same time invested.
- However, there is a threshold where in an attempt to provide additional quality that the additional crew on the set creates their own semi-self defeating benefit. And this is where your routine work with the same guys/crew starts to pay off as you guys get to not only size up the situation faster but also begin to derive the benefits of developing skills in each other's fields. With time, what woulda took 4 - 5hrs to shoot might get dropped down to 2 - 3hrs while maintaining the same quality of product.

Pretty cool.
Yeah, it was something that kinda makes sense in some nebulous principle in my head, but writing this out makes the math involved much more clear.

Thanks, again!


Ray
 
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