Thoughts on 'Primer'

I finally watched Primer yesterday after having it recommended to me constantly by multiple people, both here and In Real Life. Just wanted to get some other people's thoughts on it and process some of my reactions.

Overall I enjoyed it, and thought it was a good example of what can be done with limited resources and a small budget. I was surprised to see it was actually shot on film, as the overall aesthetic felt more like video - but it was also done just before the whole DSLR/big sensor video thing took off. I suspect they wouldn't have used film if it were shot a few years later (and I guess the directors latest is shot on a GH2, I'll have to try and check it out while it's in theaters). Overall budget was reported as $7,000 and wikipedia has the box office at over $400,000, and it seems to have done well on video as well so it's certainly been a success from that standpoint.

I thought the credits were great - I just watched a bunch of 48 hour films a couple days ago and almost every one had longer credit lists and bigger crews than Primer did. I think it had six crew, and about ten actors - although most of the crew were also in the acting credits, so it was ultimately about 12 people involved overall. It'll be interesting to see how much that has expanded in his latest film ('Upstream Color") - but looking at the info on wikipedia it looks like it's much the same approach. A lot of discussions around here involve finding specialists to work on your film rather than trying to do it all yourself, but both these films seem to be successful examples of the one man band/multi-disciplinarian approach. Upstream Color is even reportedly self-distributed, although I'm not sure exactly what that implies in terms of it's current theatrical release.

I do feel like it gets a lot more credit for how complex it is than the story really warrants. There were points where I got confused as to what was going on, but looking back it wasn't due to the complexity of the plot but more with the editing and presentation of the action. They certainly avoided exposition, and it's very jargon-heavy - I feel like that contributes to the complexity people attribute to it, but the plot itself seems fairly straightforward. It was both a risk - all the jargon early on could potentially turn people off - but also an effective tool to create the sense that there's something important going on that's maybe just out of reach as far as understanding it. I just came away feeling like they could have done more in the edit to move through the story in a way that helped make it clear what was going on without losing the mystery they created.
 
I could go either way on it. It was very interesting. I felt the story could have been more compelling. It relies a lot on manipulation to entertain the audience, but it's very well done manipulation and interesting. I guess I wanted more drama, after the twists were revealed.
 
I hated it.

The opening scene when you have 4 guys talking at the same time, interrupting each other (because they are smart and they can figure out the end of the sentence by themselves), using very technical vocabulary.

I don't think that's the way a movie should be done. I couldn't understand anything at what they were saying (even though I understood the overall scene) and that pissed me off.
 
I love these types of movies, and I thought it was a very intelligent science fiction/ thriller/ drama. But it was so slow-moving. I have nothing wrong with movies that take time to develop, or are long. But this was painful. I couldn't stand the long 10 minute scenes with useless dialogue, and people doing everyday tasks. If the pacing was a bit faster, the acting wasn't as flat, and the film cut to the point, I would have liked it much better. Way more excited about his new film "Upstream Color".
 
I hated it. [...] I don't think that's the way a movie should be done. I couldn't understand anything at what they were saying (even though I understood the overall scene) and that pissed me off.

Interesting. I tend to take that as the sign of really well-made film. Not the stuff that you hated in particular, but the fact that you hated it when some people seem to really love it.

It's something I've been thinking about since reading this OkCupid study a couple years back:

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-mathematics-of-beauty/

The gist of it is that there can be a huge difference between two women on the site who both have been rated a 7 out of 10. On one side you get cute girls who mostly got rated a 7 - on the other side you get more unique looking women who got rated either a 10 or a 4 or lower. The thing is the ones who are unique tend to be rated as ugly by some people, but the very things that turn those people off are the things that make others find them incredibly attractive, even more so than the women most people agree are cute.

I see most mainstream films as falling into the cute girl mode - they're trying to be attractive to the broadest range of people possible. A film like Primer takes the opposite approach; it's going to turn a lot of people off, but those that like it will really really like it. The risk, of course, is that you go too far and simply lose the whole audience.

I feel like when you're working on the independent level though you have to be willing to take that risk. You need to be building fans, and merely cute girls don't tend to inspire that kind of serious devotion.
 
That's a cool website dude. You didn't have to wait this long to share it :D !

To go back to Primer, it's undeniably mind-blowing but I really think there are a fair share of people among lovers who love the movie just to feel smart. I'm not sure there a two people on Earth who were able to understand everything that was going on when watching the movie for the first time.

I was in an intensive scientific class for two years and I had that kind of conversations with friends when they start explaining something to me and I cut them short because i understand where they're going at and reply based on that and so on. So for an observer, we're just a couple of dorks masturbating with words but we actually understood each other because we think the same way (that's what makes friends too right ?)

And this is exactly what's happening in Primer except I don't have the necessary scientific qualifications to understand what the hell they're talking about. I'd love a movie who uses this process but without the scientific topic and in common situations. But for Primer, to fully love the movie, I'd need to study their scientific field (whatever it is) and watch the movie many times.

But if I was to make the choice, I agree with you, I'd rather make a movie that is loves by some and hated for som other than liked by most.
 
That's a cool website dude. You didn't have to wait this long to share it :D !

I'm pretty sure I've linked it here before in discussions. Are you telling me you don't read all my posts? I'm hurt.

And this is exactly what's happening in Primer except I don't have the necessary scientific qualifications to understand what the hell they're talking about. I'd love a movie who uses this process but without the scientific topic and in common situations. But for Primer, to fully love the movie, I'd need to study their scientific field (whatever it is) and watch the movie many times.

I actually liked that part of it for the same reason you didn't. The fact that I had only the faintest inkling of what they were talking about made it seem more authentic to me, less like a screenplay - like they weren't talking in a way that was designed to explain something to me. I have a feeling if I understood what it was they were talking about it actually wouldn't work as well - because even though the filmmaker has some background in it I'm guessing it's still not particularly accurate or realistic. Like when forensic scientists complain about CSI - except he didn't try to dumb down the scene to make it look 'cool' to the audience with a bunch of flasks full of colored liquid and lens flares.

I also felt like it sets things up for the rest of the story because we're talking about stuff that (as far as we know) isn't possible, and is thus hard to understand. So instead of making up something like a 'flux capacitor' that explains away the impossibility of what they're doing, Carruth makes it come out of science that is well beyond the understanding of the viewer, and believably so because none of us understand what it is they're working on - hell, even the characters really don't, time travel is the Post It Notes of their garage efforts.
 
Ya. I saw it long ago, but I barely remember it. I don't think it left much of an impression on me. It's also possible that I fell asleep or passed out watching it. I suppose I should try it again. Maybe. Though, think I felt pretty much like Rayw did about it.

Hey, by the way, IDOM, I see you can catch Upstream Color now on Netflix or Amazon streaming. I'd like to check it out too.
 
Hey, by the way, IDOM, I see you can catch Upstream Color now on Netflix or Amazon streaming. I'd like to check it out too.

Saw that, I'm going to check it out. I was interested in seeing it theatrically just to get a feel for how it looked on the big screen (and I like to support indie distribution like that) but it literally dropped out of local theaters the day I posted this. Unfortunately I've been too busy making films to go see any for the past couple weeks!
 
I loved Primer. Recently rewatched it and STILL loved it. Probably my favourite time travel film

The way they handled the science aspect of the script was superb, it's difficult to follow whats actually being said... but what's being said isn't important, how the 'device' works isn't important... what is important is the tension and drama that develops between the two characters.

A brilliant example of taking a tried and tested movie concept (Time Travel) and breath new life into it.
 
I think it's really a love it or hate it sort of thing. I hated it, only because I felt it moved so slow it made no attempt to keep the audience involved. Even in slower movies there still is usually something that keeps the story driving and into it. This I felt did not do this.

Overall I appreciate the concept and what it was trying to do, but it just didn't work for me.
 
Believe it or not, I've met Shane several times and he has been somewhat of a mentor to me lately (he's a fellow Dallas-ite!) Just the way he was able to create such a professional product with limited resources is mindblowing- then there's the mindblowing characteristics of the movie's plot itself. Brilliant in my opinion.
 
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