Thinking about turning down studio distribution deal...

[Gratwick Films]

I recently finished my first film. A horror film entitled The Perfect House. We crowd funded the project and have gotten pretty lucky with people we've met along the way.

The success of the film and a little luck we've made connections in Hollywood that have us in direct contact with the decision makers of studios like Lionsgate and Universal. If we sell our movie we are most likely looking at a deal of 1-2 million. TOPS.

Which on the surface sounds great, but after all the people along the way get their taste there's not much left and more than likely no more coming no matter how good the film does.

I had planned on the self distribution route before we ever had the contacts so I am definitely not afraid of it. In fact I believe in it more than ever in light of Kevin Smith's speech at Sundance and Open letter at www.theredstatements.com stating his intentions with his new film.

I am thinking of spurning the distributors in favor of a planned VOD release date. Say October 1st and we spend the next 8 months doing screenings and independent film seminars/Q&A promoting the release date. Before we ever shot the film we received a ton of free press on many of the popular horror sites. With a finished project to show it should be even easier to get them on board for promoting our release.

Kevin Smith says he's determined to prove you can market with nothing more than social media, easy to say when you already used the system to create the fan base. I say it can be done by a total unknown making it real for everyone.

My question is this does anyone agree with me? And are you willing to support the cause?

 

[Blade_Jones]

What was your production budget? If they really want to pay 2 million cash up front in this market climate then I'd sure as hell take that. Otherwise, what are they going to do for you that you can't do or don't plan on doing? Are they going to pump X dollars into advertising? What are the odds that they'll get it into Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and the rest?

See what kind of contracts they offer.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Let me preface this by saying at this point in time this is all HYPOTHETICAL.

We take the finished film and start negotiating the foreign rights.

Wait, wait, wait. What?! Did you just say that you haven't even finished the movie? Haven't screened it for an audience of any reasonable size?

I hate to say it, but your head is in the clouds, brother. You've got I-just-made-a-feature-film euphoria. Don't bet the farm just yet.

 

[Blade_Jones]

Did you just say that you haven't even finished the movie? Haven't screened it for an audience of any reasonable size?

I was going to say, what planet is this that Lion's Gate is offering an advance of 1 to 2 million in 2011? More like $5,000.

 

[sonnyboo]

You've got I-just-made-a-feature-film euphoria. Don't bet the farm just yet.

Spot on is my guess. It's a wonderful feeling, hard to penetrate with reality, but one of the best feelings in the world. Hold on to it and hope it doesn't crush your feelings like a bug when distributors don't offer a total of tens of thousands of dollars.

I was going to say, what planet is this that Lion's Gate is offering an advance of 1 to 2 million in 2011? More like $5,000.

For a movie, no matter how well done, with no name stars and no festival laurel leaves - that's about right on current market value for domestic only DVD rights.

 

[Blade_Jones]

For a movie, no matter how well done, with no name stars and no festival laurel leaves - that's about right on current market value for domestic only DVD rights.

And 1 million for foreign rights??? On planet earth a few countries will either pay zero up front or promise you X dollars and later pay you nothing regardless of how many sold. Meanwhile everyone downloads it for free off PirateBay anyway.

 

[PHIL SJ]

this is hilarious, turning down a "$1-2 million" would be really stupid, I watched the trailer and to me it does not even seem worthy of being bought out right. So yeah if someone offers you that much take it, not trying to talk shit or anything, and like others have said there is no star material in this movie, and that tends to be a deal breaker. Doesnt matter how well it was made, and thats the sad truth

 

[spinner]

I was going to say, what planet is this that Lion's Gate is offering an advance of 1 to 2 million in 2011? More like $5,000.

Again I ask if I missed something... WHERE??? in this post does it say that they were offered an advance of any kind by LIONS GATE????

I'm not saying you don't deserve it, I just didn't see this anywhere - I may have missed it If you were offered a deal with LIONS GATE, TAKE IT!!!

Look Gratwick.....

Nobody is saying your film isn't good enough. Let's assume it is and you are the next John Carpenter - by the way, I looked at the trailer and it looks interesting

I think what people here are saying is: if you are being offered distribution, take it. A distributor has more money than you, more contacts than you, more pull than you. The idea of beginning a distributor for indie films is a great idea and you are not the first person on this site to discuss it. But as we all know it takes money to make money. And Quentin Tarantino and Kevin Smith notwithstanding, they can try to do this because they have more money.

-- spinner

 

[sonnyboo]

Again I ask if I missed something... WHERE??? in this post does it say that they were offered an advance of any kind by LIONS GATE????

From the original post....

The success of the film and a little luck we've made connections in Hollywood that have us in direct contact with the decision makers of studios like Lionsgate and Universal. If we sell our movie we are most likely looking at a deal of 1-2 million. TOPS.

My personal favorite... "TOPS"

In this day and age, that is extremely high for a worldwide rights offer, nonetheless a domestic home video offer, unrealistically high, as in fantasy pie in the sky high.

And 1 million for foreign rights??? On planet earth a few countries will either pay zero up front or promise you X dollars and later pay you nothing regardless of how many sold.

The estimate of a million for foreign DVD rights is unrealistically high. The various territories are not paying hardly anything in cash advances, and when they do it's usually for under $5,000-$10,000 for 7 years for the big countries and less than that for small countries.

This whole thread reads like an over excited first timer who has read a lot about amazing indie film deals from the 1990's when home video was booming. In 2011, these numbers and ideas are just no where near the way the worldwide market or video on demand is paying out for independent films. Even a movie like MONSTERS which went ON DEMAND in several countries before a theatrical release had tons and tons of international exposure, and barely cleared $40,000 in VIDEO ON DEMAND in WORLDWIDE countries combined, including North America.

 

[JakeSully]

With situtations like this, there are no right or wrong answers.
There are benefits in each possibility, but I would definetly go with the studio distribution.
Here's why:
Let's be realistic, your movie has no mainstream actors, and you are not a famous director. If I go to a store and I can pick between your movie and Michael Bay's Super Awesomtastic 'Splosion Fest with Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, and Robert Downey Jr. I'd (as an impartial target) go with the later. Why? People has this concept about indie movies being cheap looking and not enertaining.
Therefore you need something to hook people into purchasing or renting your movie, almost as a guarantee of it not sucking. That's what the studio does. A logo that almost certifies that someone invested money into it, as well as in marketing for your movie means that it can't be so bad.

Your future projects will be affected too.
When you cast actors to work for free, or for little payment, knowing that your work could get them on someones limelight will play a key factor. The same goes for people financing you. With a succesful, or at least with a project that was bough from you under your belt, producers will be easier to get.

Now, you have to consider that you might not make a much as with self distribution, but aren't the benefits worth that?

Also, you should make sure that they are buying the movie from you and not the concept. Buying the rights to your work, and then remaking it with A-List cast...That would freaking suck for you.

I'm sorry if I come off as a bit harsh, but I mean well.

 

[NickClapper]

Also, you should make sure that they are buying the movie from you and not the concept. Buying the rights to your work, and then remaking it with A-List cast...That would freaking suck for you.

Freaking suck?

I think that'd be awesome!

 

[JakeSully]

Not if they dismiss you as director and original creator.

Think Quarentine and Rec.

They bought REC's story, and remade it into Quarentine, REC not beeing shown in most places where Quarentine was, and with little to no mention of the original team.

On the other hand, singing a contract to direct a remake...That'd be wet dream material. Although it would suck for original cast and crew.

 

[NickClapper]

But REC was a massive Spanish language hit. Wikipedia informs me that it grossed $32 million, which is a little different from making an indie film, going in for VOD distribution or selling a few copies of the DVDs. In that case you've got to love a remake with Tom Cruise and one of the Sex and the City girls... right?

 

[JakeSully]

Well yeah... Not the best example.

I think that La Casa Muda and Silent House, is a better one

 

[Gratwick Films]

It was a simple and direct question, yes or no, did a studio offer you a million dollar deal?

No, you did not answer that direct question. You wasted our time with a story about speculation....

Now I am curious, can you please answer YES or NO, did a studio offer you a million dollar distribution deal for this film?



Uh, the BOOM is actually the sound of floor dropping out when that estimate turns out to be no where near reality. You have a digital feature film in the horror genre with no star power or recognizable selling point to a foreign video market.... Not sure where this million dollar figure came from, but it so incredibly unrealistic that I wouldn't quite count on that number for you or anyone else. Have you been to AFM or the Cannes Film Market or Berlin? No one is paying that much for ANY titles, including ones with decent name stars as indie film. The HD revolution has decimated foreign sale prices because everyone is making their own low budget horrors films in Dubai, Korea, the Philippines, South America etc. The buyers are no longer in need of a pile of American low budget features for DVD when they have their own now, already natively in the their own language.

I'm guessing a sales agent or producer's rep gave you that estimate of a million dollars. There's a reason they used the qualifier "estimate".... also what is their commission rate? What is their expense cap? Even if by some miracle your film does a million dollars in sales, kiss 15%-25% in commission away off the top, then expect a lot of costs in their expenses for markets, sales, DVD copies, deliverables, PAL and SECAM master dubs, art work, posters, flights to other countries for sales, booth rentals, flyers, and I can continue to make the lists, but you get the idea.

Have you done you M&E tracks yet for deliverables? You seem pretty on top of your game, so I would almost assume yes, but it never hurts to ask.





The two questions I asked:


I don't think a good sound mix and color correction or having digital effects really separates your film (or any film) from the herd. As for your horror concept, it's good and I'd even say somewhat original, but you honestly feel it's a MILLION DOLLAR VALUE "original"? I'm quite certain the exuberance of a first time film director is the adamant "YES!" but just don't get crushed when the rest of the world may not agree.

Maybe they will, who am I to judge?

Here is the answer to your question. Formally on paper NO. In a room eye to eye across the table YES.

Secondly you seem to have a whole lot of information you clearly read somewhere or researched but the simple fact is reality is far different that what you have been "told"

One other fun fact just to squash some assumptions I'm just infatuated with a finished film. To me the biggest shame and let down about the whole process is the fact I have watched my film so many times before an unbiased audience will that I no longer see it for the accomplishment it is. All I see are the flaws and the mistakes and I cringe every time. All I think about is getting on to the next film where I can put in to action all of the lessons learned from this one. If this happens to every film in a filmmakers career its a very depressing realization.

You seem to believe you have the foreign markets all figured out. If you did you would know its not just ONE market that gives you a lump sum. Its this territory, that territory, and so on. You sell each one off individually. Maybe a small one you get 50k another you get 200k TOTAL, you can bring in a MILLION on foreign alone selling off the territories individually.

Secondly while yes foreign horror is growing in popularity american horror even quality low budget is still the cream of the crop and in the most demand by FAR.

If by M&E you're talking about the foreign quality control for sound than yes. It was handled by our post house.

It's to the point now where its pointless even responding. Almost every response I get is dripping in resentment. I came on here to discuss what I'm willing to do to help the rest of the people I thought were like me. Instead its a bunch of cyber snipers trying every way possible to trip me up or out tech me with all the crap learned researching how to make movies instead of actually making them.

I don't know what you all want me to tell you. In the real entertainment business a million dollars is shit and there's far more catches to it than numbers left over once it's all cut up.

I came on here hoping to show some of you it doesn't matter what your background is or if you can stand up to the techie geek tests of worthiness but to let you know IT'S POSSIBLE.

Good luck to all of you. If you have any more questions I would be thrilled to answer them in person during our tour starting in April. Feel free to check our website in the next week or so for details.

www.theperfecthousemovie.net

I didn't come on here to get in a pissing match with those who haven't but are determined to call out those they don't want to believe actually did.

To anyone with actual interest in a bit of advice, here's some. The way they tell you to do it is designed for you not to succeed. If you're going to beat them at their own game you have to create your own game and rules.

 

[Adeimantus]

Watching this thread evolve, I’ve come to two conclusions:

1. There are legitimate reasons to think self-distribution, with luck and hard work, can make a film financially successful.

2. There are legitimate reasons to eschew the self-distribution route and accept a deal for professional distribution if a significant offer has been made.

Neither conclusion appears to contradict the other.

Of course, since I live in Michigan and my IMDB credits have yet to be posted, my opinion lacks any credence or weight, and I shall retire to my igloo with my last bottle of tequila, a hardon for Angelina, and a lingering distaste for hubris.

Cheers!

-Charles

 

[VladCantSleep]

Honestly dude, you sound like you know quite a bit about film making and the film industry. However, you do not sound like you know very much about business on the internet. Getting hits on an official site based on a cool trailer =/= OMG PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PAY TO WATCH MY MOVIE ONLINE! It's probably a better indicator of how many people are going to pirate your movie, rather than pay for it. You seem to completely misunderstand the state of the internet right now.

Why do 2 million people watch a cat falling asleep on youtube? Because it's:
-Short
-Cute
-FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE

Selling films over the internet may be viable in a few years if Kevin Smith develops some sort of framework for it -- but as it stands, no framework exists. You're on your own, trying to sell an online stream of the film, not attached to any recognizable studio. There's a reason so many ridiculously popular TV shows are OFFICIALLY available for FREE online. Because in a lot of cases, it is simply not realistic to get people to pay for watching something online. Many studios are adopting a methodology of providing free content in order to maximize their profits through advertising. Pirating is so incredibly easy nowadays. If someone actually wants to see your movie, the first thing they're going to do is check if a Torrent is available. If absolutely huge companies with full government support and a fleet of lawyers find it impossible to keep their movies off the net, yours is going to be that much harder to keep off the net. Do you know the difference? People know about Lionsgate and Universal, and are much more likely to actually pay to see a movie by them. No one has ever heard of Gratwick Films. People will either download your film, or go watch cute kittens on youtube for free.

Take the damn deal. Everyone here says they wish you luck -- but all of us are thinking the same thing. We can't wait to say "I told you so." I can't imagine very many people buying the film online when they've never heard of you. You may be able to make some many off of advertising (granted you put the film up online for free), but if you get a million views, you'll still barely make a tenth of what you'd make on the deal.

 

[martay]

Kevin Smith says he's determined to prove you can market with nothing more than social media, easy to say when you already used the system to create the fan base. I say it can be done by a total unknown making it real for everyone.

My question is this does anyone agree with me? And are you willing to support the cause?

I don't agree with you in this case...assuming you are able to get a significant MG.

If you mind your Ps & Qs in the contract, there isn't a reason you can't benefit from a Major distributor putting this out. Handling the marketing end...

Unless you ARE Kevin Smith and have benefitted from 17 years of name recognition...you are less likely to be able to use social media to create similar awareness that a major studio with a huge marketing arm can do.

Sounds like you've already gotten a ton of support if the film was crowd-funded...now you want more. It's almost being greedy with good will. They've taken care of you...you reached a goal and can call it a success and perhaps share the success with the players who contributed to you thus far. Instead of asking for even more support.

I guess, I just assume that filmmakers are always looking to make more films. If I was in your situation (my deal doesn't look to earn us anywhere near the # you're suggesting) I'd be preparing to do another film and to assist with the marketing with the studio that releases it.

Just my take,

Martin Kelley

 

[Blade_Jones]

Back in my band playing days I wish I had a dollar for every musician or band that said "I / we have label interest". Until the ink dries it doesn't exist. Actually having a distribution deal doesn't guarantee anything. Distributors sometimes pass on product that you release. Of course stores like Best Buy are even more discriminating. Then you have the consumer as the final arbitrator. Until you hit a promotional home run you haven't gone anywhere. You need national attention on a syndicated show or a viral buzz in order to move product.

 

[martay]

Back in my band playing days I wish I had a dollar for every musician or band that said "I / we have label interest". Until the ink dries it doesn't exist. Actually having a distribution deal doesn't guarantee anything. Distributors sometimes pass on product that you release. Of course stores like Best Buy are even more discriminating. Then you have the consumer as the final arbitrator. Until you hit a promotional home run you haven't gone anywhere. You need national attention on a syndicated show or a viral buzz in order to move product.

Good points. I'm still sweating both my releases this year.

Deals are great but it'll be easily forgotten if we don't get shelf space or rents or butts in seats where applicable.

Wish me luck.

-Martin

 

[Blade_Jones]

Do you know how many DVD's they manufactured or how many they expect to initially ship?