THE WALLY - Expanding the American consciousness

[Editor]

One cliche which really irritates me is the way Americans divide school students into the two basic groups of the High School jock who is cool but stupid and the geek who is unattractive but really smart.

In England, we have another concept that is so sadly missing in American films... THE WALLY.

"The Wally" is estantially the same as the geek EXCEPT... he is really stupid and has no clue whatsoever when it comes to using equipment. For the Wally, even a door handle is advanced technology.

 

[Inarius]

You are wrong about the American school stereotypes. They are more divided then how you've illustrated that:

1 - Jock (cool but stupid)
2 - Alpha Male (the same as the jock, but not stupid)
3 - Bad Boy (usually has problems with the police)
4 - Weed Boy
5 - Wanna-Pussy-All-The-Time Boy (the one who talks about nothing but pussy)
6 - Geek (unnatractive, but aren't smart as well. "Smart" has a different meaning)
7 - Rap Boy (not necessary black)

And these are only the male stereotypes

 

[maz]

Surely the wally is just the klutz in US currency?

 

[Editor]

Surely the wally is just the klutz in US currency?

A klutz CAN be attractive. A Wally is never is - he wear taped up glasses, a duffle coat and eats out of picnic boxes.

There is also one other element about a Wally I forgot to mention: a Wally has HUGE self-confidence - he always BELIEVES that he is smart and cool and that his stupid way of doing things will work out for the better, but, of course NEVER does.

 

[maz]

Examples of the wally? If he (I assume he has to be a 'he') is a type, then there must be plenty of examples.

Or, to put it in simpler terms: where's Wally?

 

[FantasySciFi]

One cliche which really irritates me is the way Americans divide school students into the two basic groups of the High School jock who is cool but stupid and the geek who is unattractive but really smart.

In England, we have another concept that is so sadly missing in American films... THE WALLY.

"The Wally" is estantially the same as the geek EXCEPT... he is really stupid and has no clue whatsoever when it comes to using equipment. For the Wally, even a door handle is advanced technology.

That's a rather lopsided, anglocentric view if you haven't been inside the American school system. All cultures have stereotypes. One cliche that could irritate me is that every UK school has upper classmen who are obliged to bully and physically haze lower classmen and students of color. Seems true of every British pic involving schools. This was particularly true for Sikhs who wore turbans. So are/were you one of the snooty, aristocratic bullies or one of the abused commoners with a cockney accent? That's the sense one could get watching across the pond.

If you let cliches and simplistic stereotypes irritate you, you'll find life will become very tedious. It's more important to avoid creating or supporting such stereotypes in one's own writing. And when possible, point it out in that of others. There are times when--as in a comedy--it is exaggerated for effect. A more careful examination will reveal there are multiple roles--the athlete (jock), the smart one (nerd), gentle giant, the musician, the hustler, the artist, the rebel, etc. These roles run throughout several American films and television programs. They also appear in quality international programming.

If that's the impression you have, then you may need to expand the scope of what programs you watch. Especially those that confront the tough issues students face with drugs, social pressures in split homes, and sex. That's true of the educational system for all countries. At least with "Breakfast Club" there was an attempt to get behind the stereotype and examine the struggles the average school student which create the facades.

So, yeah, I'm rather disappointed that you'd want to add yet another low-brow stereotype ('wally') to the mix rather than encourage a more realistic view and abandon stereotypes.

 

[maz]

That's a rather lopsided, anglocentric view if you haven't been inside the American school system. All cultures have stereotypes. One cliche that could irritate me is that every UK school has upper classmen who are obliged to bully and physically haze lower classmen and students of color. Seems true of every British pic involving schools. This was particularly true for Sikhs who wore turbans. So are/were you one of the snooty, aristocratic bullies or one of the abused commoners with a cockney accent? That's the sense one could get watching across the pond.

While I agree with your overall point, I gather from this description that you really haven't watched many British films/TV shows in the last 40 years... Those 'cliches' are not even vaguely recognisable cliches in modern British film/TV, so I really don't know what you've been watching for it to "seem true of every British pic involving schools". Maybe if you're watching films about posh private schools, where hierarchical bullying and casual buggery are essentially timetabled activities then you might be right... but that's not really a fair comparison to the average US high school that features in TV and cinema.

And yeah, you could say that was your point, but US high school characters do seem to break down into these stereotypes far more easily than in the UK (I don't mean actual high school students, I mean the way they are so casually grouped into convenient stereotypes).

 

[trueindie]

While I agree with your overall point, I gather from this description that you really haven't watched many British films/TV shows in the last 40 years... Those 'cliches' are not even vaguely recognisable cliches in modern British film/TV, so I really don't know what you've been watching for it to "seem true of every British pic involving schools". Maybe if you're watching films about posh private schools, where hierarchical bullying and casual buggery are essentially timetabled activities then you might be right... but that's not really a fair comparison to the average US high school that features in TV and cinema.

And yeah, you could say that was your point, but US high school characters do seem to break down into these stereotypes far more easily than in the UK (I don't mean actual high school students, I mean the way they are so casually grouped into convenient stereotypes).

So what are some British shows about high school students that don't break down according to convenient stereotypes?

I find it a little weird critiquing American film in one line. Yeah, the BBC is great. I've always had great respect for the BBC. But American TV includes HBO, and Showtime and AMC, which are brilliant by any standard.

And American Film can create mindless explosions, but it also creates Birdman (Inaritu is Mexican, but Birdman is a very American film). Any film that I'm trying to make, is going to be heavily influenced by the American "consciousness" whatever that is. And I'm from halfway around the world.

And personally, I love European film. I love Iranian films. I particlualry love Irish movies. But I absolutely love the best of American film. To put American film in a category, or to say that it is always one way or the other is not useful. High school related movies can include The Breakfast Club. It can also include Dead Poets Society, one of the best films ever made on adolescence, in my opinion. It was made by an Aussie, but it's an American film. It's an American story.

Also American High Schools are their own animal. I'm glad I didn't go to High School in the US. It sounds like a traumatic experience from everything I've ever heard. Maybe American high school characters in movies are a reflection of the high school experience particular to America. I don't know.

But I'm really interested in hearing about some British shows that can expand my imagination of high school students.
Cheers,
Aveek

 

[Inarius]

As far as I see in many films and TV-series, stereotypes exist to give a first reference to a complicated character, and not introduce all of his "skeletons in the closet" at the beginning of the film. For example, you can see a stereotype geek, but later you learn, that he kills cats and sells them for an illegal restaurant, which make "special meals" out of it.

 

[FantasySciFi]

Hogwarts was a LIE ?!?! No! My simple world of pure-blood aristocracy, pure-blood commoners and mudbloods has been turned topsy turvy. I thought you all had to be sorted into the smart ones (Ravenclaw), dumb but sweet ones (Hufflepuff), brave athletic ones (Gryffindor) and the nasty bully cads (Slytherin). I feel betrayed. Outraged! I've been lied to by the entertainment industry.

Seriously though. It may have been in good jest suggesting the 'wally'. In fact, 'geek' is the term used here. American comedies and even poorly written films emphasize the smart vs. athletic. But programs also cover those that are artistic, quiet, or 'normal'. My point is that even simple jokes can be misunderstood. Labeling can be hurtful even if unintentional. Especially with adolescents who are sensitive. Adding a new category that is simply degrading isn't helpful. At least being considered athletic (jock) or smart (nerd) has some positive connotation. Wally or geek has none. If you're writing, please don't go there.

 

[maz]

So what are some British shows about high school students that don't break down according to convenient stereotypes?

I find it a little weird critiquing American film in one line. Yeah, the BBC is great. I've always had great respect for the BBC. But American TV includes HBO, and Showtime and AMC, which are brilliant by any standard.

And American Film can create mindless explosions, but it also creates Birdman (Inaritu is Mexican, but Birdman is a very American film). Any film that I'm trying to make, is going to be heavily influenced by the American "consciousness" whatever that is. And I'm from halfway around the world.

And personally, I love European film. I love Iranian films. I particlualry love Irish movies. But I absolutely love the best of American film. To put American film in a category, or to say that it is always one way or the other is not useful. High school related movies can include The Breakfast Club. It can also include Dead Poets Society, one of the best films ever made on adolescence, in my opinion. It was made by an Aussie, but it's an American film. It's an American story.

Also American High Schools are their own animal. I'm glad I didn't go to High School in the US. It sounds like a traumatic experience from everything I've ever heard. Maybe American high school characters in movies are a reflection of the high school experience particular to America. I don't know.

But I'm really interested in hearing about some British shows that can expand my imagination of high school students.
Cheers,
Aveek

I gather from your reply that you think I'm attacking US TV or movies. I'm not. I probably watch more HBO/AMC-produced stuff than any UK channel other than the BBC.

I'll have to think about UK shows, as I don't tend to watch stuff oriented for that age group so much anymore.

 

[maz]

Hogwarts was a LIE ?!?! No! My simple world of pure-blood aristocracy, pure-blood commoners and mudbloods has been turned topsy turvy. I thought you all had to be sorted into the smart ones (Ravenclaw), dumb but sweet ones (Hufflepuff), brave athletic ones (Gryffindor) and the nasty bully cads (Slytherin). I feel betrayed. Outraged! I've been lied to by the entertainment industry.

Seriously though. It may have been in good jest suggesting the 'wally'. In fact, 'geek' is the term used here. American comedies and even poorly written films emphasize the smart vs. athletic. But programs also cover those that are artistic, quiet, or 'normal'. My point is that even simple jokes can be misunderstood. Labeling can be hurtful even if unintentional. Especially with adolescents who are sensitive. Adding a new category that is simply degrading isn't helpful. At least being considered athletic (jock) or smart (nerd) has some positive connotation. Wally or geek has none. If you're writing, please don't go there.

Seriously, that whole point about widespread UK cliches was based on Harry Potter? J.K has a lot to answer for

I agree that labelling isn't helpful for real people, but when we're talking about character types and tropes and roles and functions within a story, that kind of label can be helpful. I'm wary about "Wally" though, as I don't see the constructive purpose of labelling a character type based largely on appearance and, as you say, with no redeeming features whatsoever.

 

[trueindie]

I gather from your reply that you think I'm attacking US TV or movies. I'm not. I probably watch more HBO/AMC-produced stuff than any UK channel other than the BBC.

I'll have to think about UK shows, as I don't tend to watch stuff oriented for that age group so much anymore.

No, I don't think you were attacking US TV Movies. I think I was really responding to Editor. My apologies for using you to make my point

And I'm not American, but an immigrant from Bangladesh to Canada. I spent about 10 years in the US, and I simply love American culture, American movies and American literature, and music. I just love it. I got immersed into it, and I drank it, and I loved it. So I find myself sometimes reflexively defending it. It's so easy to bash .

Cheers,
Aveek