the Sonnyboo Gazette
- Thread starter sonnyboo
- Start date
sonnyboo said:
Thanks, it wasn't ment to be as such and I'm glad you saw it that way. Yes, I will admit that I hadn't seen your site in quite some time. I was just going off what I remembered from the last time I was there. (dumb, perhaps but can't go back and change the past). So Mr. Boo I have to say congrats on the feature, from what I see "Horrors of War" looks very interesting.
Now just to clear things up I never actually said that the ideas or situations I posed were absolute, I said that they are what happens by and large. I didn't really mean what I said to come off directed at Boo alone. I see this a lot and I have to ask (again, please don't think I'm being mean or trying to start fights, it's just a question): Why are there not more people here that are in the process of making a feature? Do many feel that they are not yet ready? If so what's holding you back? (Again just trying to ask some questions and maybe we can come to the realization of why we are selling ourselves short)
Zensteve: "I would ask the same... of you."
Well I have my first feature script done and I'm in pre-pro right now and as soon as I'm ready I'm quiting my full time job in television and I will devote a month to shooting and three months for post. Why this may sound odd to some I believe in "Shit or get off the pot". When I'm ready to go I'm jumping into the deep end, sink or swim. I think a lot of people would do well (in one way or another) to adopt a live or let die lifestyle.
-Adam
PunkPortrais,
Personally, I thought Zensteve brought up some valid remarks regarding Sonnyboo's 'marketing' and future plans for feature-length releases. You have posed the question as to 'why' forum members aren't (or are) in the process of creating feature-length productions. I can only answer for myself and hopefully others here will describe their particular struggles to bring a piece to fruition.
I graduated from college with a BFA in painting, I then went on to a tech school where I studied Film. I came to realize that hand-drawn animation was the ideal medium for me to express my vision. I had completed several short animations with aspirations to use these as 'calling cards' for grants agencies...they worked. I was able to secure several 'fine arts' fellowships towards my feature-length animation, 'Marilyn (x9) Was My Mother'. All fine and dandy...but then things like LIFE rolls around and you don't get to invest as much time as you originally plan. What should have been a five year project turns into 10+.
I'm sure there are myriads of stories just like mine...people aspire to create, but you cannot always place a piece of art into a business plan. Just my opinion.
Firstly, there are a lot of people here who have either made or are making features.
Secondly, making a feature is a major financial and time undertaking which requires extremely high skill and knowledge levels. The difference between making a feature and making a short is the difference between riding a bicycle and riding a unicycle over Niagara Falls on a tightrope.
Thirdly, a writer who has all the skills to write a great short does not necessarily have the skills to write a feature. The structural elements alone are of a completely different order. So just getting the right script is a long process. My first feature cost £400,000 to complete and that's a huge financial risk.
Finally, not everyone wants to make features, it's not a better form of film making, it's just the most commercial (after porn).
PunkPortrais said:
It's just a difference of opinion but short films are not necesarily "selling ourselves short".
I can't tell you how many casting calls and even shoots I've seen for 5 mintue short films either never get finished or if finished, ever shown. Add the amount of time, cost, and effort by a factor of 20 for a feature film. It's not too hard to figure out why more features don't get made. It's more work than most realize.
Using your earlier statements about the only way to make money, not every indie feature film makes money, in fact an extremely high percentage lose money every year. So a lot of people puttign a lot of effort into a sinking ship isn't always the best way to spend your free time or investor's money.
Doing a feature film is a far heftier commitment from actors & crew, of their time, their energy, their talent. For an extended period of time that a feature film requires as opposed to short film, it's more often that people want to be compensated for their time (meaning $$$), which leads to the #1 cause of feature films not happening. MONEY.
PunkPortrais said:
Personally I'm in the process of making two. I'm acting in a suspense/horror feature being shot on DV, which starts shooting on Feb. 12th. Also working with a writer/producer on the pre-production of a feature length "Dark Romantic Comedy" for lack of a better term, that will be shot on 16mm and is scheduled for mid-late summer.
WideShot is in the process of writing a script for me for a short that I plan to shoot, most likely on super8, between the production periods of these two features. Also I'm collaborating on a feature length script with another forum member, whiterabbit. As well as working on initial stages of three other feature length ideas.
Some people don't like to speak too openly about things they are working on until they are well into the process.. call it superstition or whatever. Personally, I'll tell you anything you wanna know. Want to know what I'm working on? Ask me
but send a PM, it's easier to track down... 
Short vs. Feature
We all are learning here, some are at a higher level than others. Just because someone shoots 100 shorts before they shoot a feature doesn't make them any less of a filmmaker than the one who shoots a feature right off the bat.
If anything, I'd say it's visa versa.
Think of how Kevin Smith could have benefited from doing some short projects before jumping into Clerks. Think of how Robert Rodriguez did benefit from shooting numerous shorts before attempting the magic trick that is El Mariachi. Short Films are an important part of a filmmaker's development, and pretending like they are a waste of time is a big "no-no" in my book.
I am developing a feature project and one of the main things I keep coming back to is - Am I ready? Should I shoot more shorts before undertaking this endeavor? Will I fail because I don't have enough experience?
Now, I think at some point everyone wants to at least try a feature, but I think there are two types of Indies on this matter: 1) The Indie that realizes that fimmaking is a craft and approaches it as so - learning through the trial by error process of short films, and 2) The Indie that feels the only films that matter are feature films and does not "do the time" but attempts to capture lightning in a bottle by shooting features before they are ready.
I personally thank God that we have more of the #1s than the #2s here at Indie Talk.
Poke
We all are learning here, some are at a higher level than others. Just because someone shoots 100 shorts before they shoot a feature doesn't make them any less of a filmmaker than the one who shoots a feature right off the bat.
If anything, I'd say it's visa versa.
Think of how Kevin Smith could have benefited from doing some short projects before jumping into Clerks. Think of how Robert Rodriguez did benefit from shooting numerous shorts before attempting the magic trick that is El Mariachi. Short Films are an important part of a filmmaker's development, and pretending like they are a waste of time is a big "no-no" in my book.
I am developing a feature project and one of the main things I keep coming back to is - Am I ready? Should I shoot more shorts before undertaking this endeavor? Will I fail because I don't have enough experience?
Now, I think at some point everyone wants to at least try a feature, but I think there are two types of Indies on this matter: 1) The Indie that realizes that fimmaking is a craft and approaches it as so - learning through the trial by error process of short films, and 2) The Indie that feels the only films that matter are feature films and does not "do the time" but attempts to capture lightning in a bottle by shooting features before they are ready.
I personally thank God that we have more of the #1s than the #2s here at Indie Talk.
Poke
Shorts provide the following:
1) A chance to perfect a potential filmmaker's techniques of lighting, framing, directing, organizing, writing, planning, and budgeting, but on DV, an affordable medium.
2) A chance to perfect a filmmaker's techniques of lighting, framing, directing, organizing, writing, planning, and budgeting, but on s8mm, 16mm or s16mm, costing only $200-$5000 to actually make cinema, with film. This allows a filmmaker to have the experience of shooting 1,2,3, or 10 s8 or s16 5-20min shorts which will directly translate into preparedness when that filmmaker is given the opportunity to shoot 35 or a derivitive therof. If you just jumped right into 35mm filmmaking, you would have no clue how all the different facets from visuals to sound to logistics functions together. You would have no clue on how to frame shots. You would be a clueless director/filmmaker unless you have worked hands on before.
3) You are commercially more viable as an entity because you have demonstrative works. DV or film, you have made cinema and you can show that to someone who wants to invest in you. They are investing in YOU. They believe in YOU. How can you convince them you can make a 90 minute piece of cinema that will MAKE MONEY if they have nothing to go by to begin to believe in YOU?
4) The more cinema you make, theoretically, the more all around your techniques and storytelling improves, and thus so does your demo reel. 1 short is tough to bank on no matter how good it is. 4 shorts is great if they vary in genre and show your talent well. 40 shorts give you a lot of choice of what to show investors. And it show that you have a long history of completing projects.
5) As Clive said, the feature is the dangling carrot. Someday 15% of short filmmakers get to shoot a feature. Of those, probably 10% will do anything or will make money. That means, you need to deliver or you will have a hard time ever making anything ever again. Kevin Smith and others like him who max their CC's and make a film that is bought by Miramax is a rarity. That method will likely make you in debt forever or Bankrupt. There are far more filmmakers who have gone down that road that are in serious debt because they went down that road. That is why to make a feature you can go with the two following bits:
A) USE OPM. If the film doesn't make a dime on theatrical or foreign, you will likely come close to making back your money with DTV. If you don't, you will not end up going bankrupt.
B) Know your sh**. A filmmaker with connections previosuly established can very easily verbally manage to secure many of the important personnel, stock, developing, studio time,trucks, etc. for relative bargains by getting them to go for little up front and percentage on the backend. This can bring down the overall cost of the production, raise the potential for a deliverable feature with good or great quality visual and audio components, and cut the number of crew needed for such a shoot directly afftecting the dependance on a DP and other experts to raise the production quality of the film.
The combination of these two elements can deliver a film for a budget that smart investors can forsee becomming lucrative financially down the road, and a gameplan for all involved to believe in.
This is a business about making those who will ultimately help you to make a successful feature appreciate your talents and believe enough in you and your vision to put their money, time, and talents on the line to deliver a wonderful product. You need to demonstrate that you are worth this belief. You need to make demonstrative shorts.
SonnyBoo may be abrasive to an extent in his promotions and efforts to build his image to garner the belief that is needed for him to make a feature. But he is arguably the best aspiring filmmaker all around that is cpable of delivering a feature product tomorrow that I have seen come to indietalk. He is *there* because he has put in the time, money, and willpower to get there. Read his story on his website. If he is successful, he will be a true rags to riches story. You may not want to emulate his films, or his style, but you have to admire his drive and determination to reach the point where he is. Horrors of War may indeed suprise you. Give him the chance to prove you right or wrong.
Added: I am not ready to shoot a feature. Not because I couldn't do it, not because I don't have the techincal knowhow, the idea, the script or the connections, or the ability to raise money for my idea. I'm not ready because I have a lot to learn still about the whole process. indietalk (Dan), Clive, Scott Spears, SonnyBoo, and all others that have made demonstrative shorts and films will testify that making the film is only half the work. You need to generate buzz, get it to festivals, support it at festivals, sell the distribution, get press, and ultimately get your film into theaters or in a consumers DVD player. I have not been there yet, because I don't have something to take to a Sundance or a Toronto or a Telluride or or or. Even though my short won an award at a festival and so far has gotten very good reviews that doesn't allow me to jump in over my head and just make a movie. I have a lot to learn and I plan to learn it soon through a dynamic short I will make. I might then be ready to make a feature and greenlight my feature project. Or, I might not. Its about smart decisions, good cinema, dedication, and willpower. Its not about jumping out a window, calling yourself a director, and falling flat on your face. Remember too, once you do finally make a feature, and it is actually successful, that is just the beginning. You need plans for after that successful feature too.
1) A chance to perfect a potential filmmaker's techniques of lighting, framing, directing, organizing, writing, planning, and budgeting, but on DV, an affordable medium.
2) A chance to perfect a filmmaker's techniques of lighting, framing, directing, organizing, writing, planning, and budgeting, but on s8mm, 16mm or s16mm, costing only $200-$5000 to actually make cinema, with film. This allows a filmmaker to have the experience of shooting 1,2,3, or 10 s8 or s16 5-20min shorts which will directly translate into preparedness when that filmmaker is given the opportunity to shoot 35 or a derivitive therof. If you just jumped right into 35mm filmmaking, you would have no clue how all the different facets from visuals to sound to logistics functions together. You would have no clue on how to frame shots. You would be a clueless director/filmmaker unless you have worked hands on before.
3) You are commercially more viable as an entity because you have demonstrative works. DV or film, you have made cinema and you can show that to someone who wants to invest in you. They are investing in YOU. They believe in YOU. How can you convince them you can make a 90 minute piece of cinema that will MAKE MONEY if they have nothing to go by to begin to believe in YOU?
4) The more cinema you make, theoretically, the more all around your techniques and storytelling improves, and thus so does your demo reel. 1 short is tough to bank on no matter how good it is. 4 shorts is great if they vary in genre and show your talent well. 40 shorts give you a lot of choice of what to show investors. And it show that you have a long history of completing projects.
5) As Clive said, the feature is the dangling carrot. Someday 15% of short filmmakers get to shoot a feature. Of those, probably 10% will do anything or will make money. That means, you need to deliver or you will have a hard time ever making anything ever again. Kevin Smith and others like him who max their CC's and make a film that is bought by Miramax is a rarity. That method will likely make you in debt forever or Bankrupt. There are far more filmmakers who have gone down that road that are in serious debt because they went down that road. That is why to make a feature you can go with the two following bits:
A) USE OPM. If the film doesn't make a dime on theatrical or foreign, you will likely come close to making back your money with DTV. If you don't, you will not end up going bankrupt.
B) Know your sh**. A filmmaker with connections previosuly established can very easily verbally manage to secure many of the important personnel, stock, developing, studio time,trucks, etc. for relative bargains by getting them to go for little up front and percentage on the backend. This can bring down the overall cost of the production, raise the potential for a deliverable feature with good or great quality visual and audio components, and cut the number of crew needed for such a shoot directly afftecting the dependance on a DP and other experts to raise the production quality of the film.
The combination of these two elements can deliver a film for a budget that smart investors can forsee becomming lucrative financially down the road, and a gameplan for all involved to believe in.
This is a business about making those who will ultimately help you to make a successful feature appreciate your talents and believe enough in you and your vision to put their money, time, and talents on the line to deliver a wonderful product. You need to demonstrate that you are worth this belief. You need to make demonstrative shorts.
SonnyBoo may be abrasive to an extent in his promotions and efforts to build his image to garner the belief that is needed for him to make a feature. But he is arguably the best aspiring filmmaker all around that is cpable of delivering a feature product tomorrow that I have seen come to indietalk. He is *there* because he has put in the time, money, and willpower to get there. Read his story on his website. If he is successful, he will be a true rags to riches story. You may not want to emulate his films, or his style, but you have to admire his drive and determination to reach the point where he is. Horrors of War may indeed suprise you. Give him the chance to prove you right or wrong.
Added: I am not ready to shoot a feature. Not because I couldn't do it, not because I don't have the techincal knowhow, the idea, the script or the connections, or the ability to raise money for my idea. I'm not ready because I have a lot to learn still about the whole process. indietalk (Dan), Clive, Scott Spears, SonnyBoo, and all others that have made demonstrative shorts and films will testify that making the film is only half the work. You need to generate buzz, get it to festivals, support it at festivals, sell the distribution, get press, and ultimately get your film into theaters or in a consumers DVD player. I have not been there yet, because I don't have something to take to a Sundance or a Toronto or a Telluride or or or. Even though my short won an award at a festival and so far has gotten very good reviews that doesn't allow me to jump in over my head and just make a movie. I have a lot to learn and I plan to learn it soon through a dynamic short I will make. I might then be ready to make a feature and greenlight my feature project. Or, I might not. Its about smart decisions, good cinema, dedication, and willpower. Its not about jumping out a window, calling yourself a director, and falling flat on your face. Remember too, once you do finally make a feature, and it is actually successful, that is just the beginning. You need plans for after that successful feature too.
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More Awards for the Boo
Sonnyboo short film ELEVATOR has won 2nd Place at the Central Nebraska Film Festival this past weekend!
ELEVATOR was written & concieved by Improv instructor George Caleodis and shot at the Second City Cleveland with George, local actor Joe Teeters, and Second City's keyboard player David Schmoll who also wrote/performed the music.
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and I just sold my 203rd "Best of Sonnyboo" DVD
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The Boo is happy.
Sonnyboo short film ELEVATOR has won 2nd Place at the Central Nebraska Film Festival this past weekend!
ELEVATOR was written & concieved by Improv instructor George Caleodis and shot at the Second City Cleveland with George, local actor Joe Teeters, and Second City's keyboard player David Schmoll who also wrote/performed the music.
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and I just sold my 203rd "Best of Sonnyboo" DVD
======================
The Boo is happy.
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CONGRATS!!!!!